Sherrie Savage, August 10th, 2022

Sherrie Savage, August 10th, 2022

In this interview, Sherrie Savage talks about her life growing up, her schooling, and her business.

Detroit Historical Society

Detroit Historical Society

en-US

Sherrie Savage

Sherrie Savage was born and raised in Detroit. She went through the school system here and now owns her business, Naturally Illustrated.

Billy Wall-Winkel

Detroit, MI

8/10/2022

45:25

Taylor Claybrook

BWW [00:00:01] Oh. Is your phone muted?

SS [00:00:03] Yes, it’s muted. I made sure to do that.

BWW [00:00:06] My ears later appreciate you.

SS [00:00:07] Yeah, no problem.

BWW [00:00:10] Hello. My name is Billy Wall Winkle. This interview is for the Detroit Historical Society's Hustle Project. Today is August 10th, 2022, and we are in Detroit, Michigan, and I'm sitting down with Sherrie Savage. Please spell your name for me.

SS [00:00:23] Sherrie Savage.

BWW [00:00:29] Thank you so much for sitting down with me. Let's start with just some baseline questions. Where and when were you born?

SS [00:00:37] I was born in Detroit, Michigan, when I was born… my birthday actually just passed…July 22nd, 1984. So I am officially 38 and feeling every bit of it.

BWW [00:00:55] Did you grow up in the city?

SS [00:00:56] Yes, I did. So I grew up in the city, but my schooling was mostly outside of the city. Oak Park, Michigan.

BWW [00:01:09] Why was that?

SS [00:01:11] Well, my father lived in Detroit. My mother lived on Oak Park.
BWW [00:01:15] Oh, that’ll do it. Yeah, that makes it much easier.

SS [00:01:19] Yes, it does.

BWW [00:01:21] So when did you decide that this is a sign…that was a terrible way to start that question. Let's get some baselines for your business first. What is the name of your business?

SS [00:01:35] It's Naturally Illustrated.

BWW [00:01:38] And how long have… what year did that start?

SS [00:01:43] So it just kind of depends on how you want to look at it. Officially, it started in 2016. May 2016. Good Cakes and Bakes when I hosted my first coloring event. But the idea came about in 2015 and that's when I decided that I wanted to illustrate my natural hair journey. Thinking of a project for myself as an illustrator, how I wanted to illustrate that. And I decided to create a coloring book.

BWW [00:02:24] I want to continue with the baseline questions and we'll get back to the specifics. How long have you been an illustrator?

SS [00:02:29] I've been an illustrator. Goodness gracious. Again, depending on how you want to look at it, probably since the age of three. But I got my degree in 2008 from College for Creative Studies.

BWW [00:02:44] So even even before college, you knew that this was a passion for you. You knew this was something you wanted to do.

SS [00:02:51] Yes.

BWW [00:02:53] Did you always have a passion for…So like drawing yourself or creating these guides or was it something or was that a realization that came later on?

SS [00:03:07] So I've always been I've always drew what I saw, so more realism, portraits, things of that nature. But what it kind of changed my interest was Toy Story. That movie came out when I was about 12, and that's when I decided that I wanted to be an animator. And when I attended college, that was my major at first with a minor illustration, and then I decided to switch the two around.

BWW [00:03:46] Why did you decide that?

SS [00:03:48] Oh, a few reasons. One, I had instructor that told me Sherrie, you're not an animator, you're an illustrator. And two, I felt like I was missing that component of of, again, you know, just drawing from life. Not to say that animation is not a part of my journey right now, because it is. I still have a desire to do both. And you can do both. There's a lot of illustrators that work with animators or that animate. So they're interchangeable.

BWW [00:04:28] And so what year did you graduate from [CCS]?

SS [00:04:31] 2008.

BWW [00:04:35] So what was the journey like between graduating from CCS in 2008 to this idea you had in 2015?

SS [00:04:43] Yes. So. Well, we all know 2008 wasn't a great year and the economy crashed. So when I graduated, I had multiple jobs at one time. There was one point in time I was working three different jobs. It was totally not related in my field. But it was one of those things that, again, I never lost focus on what I wanted to do long term, and that was to be a full time illustrator. So, you know, through that journey, I was in survival mode and making sure that I was making enough money to pay the bills. Like many millennials are paying the bills, you know, making sure I have groceries. And so but again, I was stil drawing and always, you know, working towards my goal to be that illustrator. I, I had other businesses before Naturally Illustrated. I was freelancing. I was also I also had another business called Cargo Paint where it was a sip and paint company that was that was mobile found out that wasn't really something that desired to do because it just kind of restricted me from my creative freedom. And so, you know, fortunately, just in 2015, I just had that and again, just trying to figure out, you know, what will be fulfilling for me as a project. And that's when I came out with Naturally Illustrated. And actually Illustrator is actually the name of my coloring book and I just took that name and applied it as my as my business.

BWW [00:06:28] And what was the reaction to you telling people that this was something that you were going to go after? This was your focus. This was your… this is the niche you wanted to fill.

SS[00:06:40] Are you just speaking to the public or family friends?

BWW [00:06:43] Oh, yeah. Sorry. Family friends first.

SS[00:06:45] So family friends, they were all supportive. You know, again, you know, when I first started the project, I didn't look at it as a business. Again, it was a project that I just wanted to do for myself. In 2013, I went natural with my hair and I became very, very inspired by YouTubers, you know, giving their their advice about natural hair and natural hair care. And I was like, okay, I kind of want to do something like that, but I definitely did not want to be a YouTuber. I'm not the type of person that likes a lot of spotlight and on top of the fact that I'm an illustrator, so I said, okay, how can I kind of turn this around? And so, yeah, when people… when I shared it with family, friends, I was like, Oh, that's a pretty cool idea. Everyone always been very supportive of my artwork, so.

BWW[00:07:49] And what was the public's reaction to you getting it? You're getting this going. So there was a year between like the idea and the formal launch, right?

SS[00:07:58] So in 2015, that was the year that I was doing a lot of the development. The launch happened on May 16, 2016 at like I said, Good Cakes and Bakes. I got a great response from it. You know, at that time, coloring was very popular, especially adult coloring books, and so people took to it very well. My first coloring event, I had over 230 people in attendance. You know, there were families, there were couples that were there and coloring. So I got a really great response from it.

BWW [00:08:46] Why did you have it at Good cakes and Bakes?

SS [00:08:49] I don't... I have a great rapport with the owner, April Anderson, and she's always been supportive of my business ventures. So at the time, before she had construction at Good cakes and Bakes, she had a lot of space and she will host a lot of events there. And it's a very adorable bakery, too. So I you know, I thought it just makes sense and I thought it was a good partnership.

BWW[00:09:17] And is that where the first coloring event was?

SS [00:09:20] Yes.

BWW [00:09:24] So you mentioned you had over 230 people there. Yes. And so take me take me through that first event. What was it like?

SS [00:09:33] Very overwhelming. Yes. So, you know, I got a lot of response. I created a Facebook event page for a lot of shares, a lot of comments, a lot of responses. And I knew that I was going to have a crowd. Did not expect that it was going to be that many people. Of course, there weren't 230 people all at once. There were people coming in and out, of course. And, yeah, you know, they were just overflowing. There were people coloring on the benches. They were outside. What was great was April sold out of baked goods that day. I don't think they were really prepared for the type of crowd that was coming in. I think I was prepared, but like I said, not mentally prepared for it definitely needed more help than what I expected. But it was still turned out really well, had some
really great reviews. But yeah, everyone was really just enjoying each other. It was just a great community project to have. And you know, people were asking for more, so.

BWW [00:10:55] So how long did it take you to do the next one.

SS[00:10:57] the next one? It was I believe it was the following year. Yes. All of that was the my emoji coloring book. So I decided to go a little bit of a different direction where, again, keeping the theme of the natural hair, but with emojis having again, emojis that kids can relate to. And also these emojis are in representation of one's emotions and being aware of your emotions as well. So was something about, you know, just mental health I'm really an advocate for as well. So letting kids know that, hey, it's okay to be sometimes sad or happy, angry, disappointed. I even have some t shirts that'll be coming out soon where the the nerd emoji will be on the t shirt and it will say, I'm such a nerd. So just again, you know, being able to express those feelings. So with the next coloring book, again, it was about hair and how kids may feel about their parents, how they feel about the natural hair. Because, again, being black, your hair can be a little bit of a challenge. And so especially trying to figure out how to maintain it. And so the book definitely goes through a range of emotions. So showing each of those emojis going through a range of emotions of how they feel kind of sad or defeated about their hair and then how they went to the salon or barber shop and they left feeling like a brand new person.

BWW [00:12:47] Why did you only have the one event for the first book and not say, multiple events?

SS [00:12:52] Oh, I did have multiple events.

BWW [00:12:54] Oh, okay. That was my question earlier. Sorry. Yeah.

SS [00:12:56] Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. No, I had multiple, multiple events. My had events at Socratea Detroit, my largest event was held at the Charles Wright museum. I had over 500 women there. That was called coloring at concerts at the museum held at the Northwestern Farmers Market. A couple of times I had the Southfield Public Library and I'm sure I'm missing a lot of other locations. But no, I definitely been around the metro Detroit area. Even out to Lansing. Yeah, Lansing. Yeah, Lansing. Yeah. So I’ve been around here.

BWW [00:13:35] I was, I was, I was like, oh, you only did the 1 event. I was like, okay, yeah. That event sold a lot of books. Yeah. How did it feel for you? Well, I guess let me say this. Did you what did you we're we're able to do this full time for your work or did you have to keep doing that other jobs?

SS [00:13:55] No, I still I do have a full time job still. But Naturally Illustrated, you know, it's definitely a priority as well.

BWW [00:14:06] Because my thought was, how did it feel going, say, from working like three jobs at a time to having this new gig? That's one. But you're just constantly going everywhere else and doing other like it's different every time. Yeah.

SS[00:14:21] So, you know, I did get down to one employer as a multimedia designer, so still somewhat in my field. And you know, like I said before, is one of those things that I still have the desire of being that illustrator, people experiencing my work. So that hasn't changed at all, but it's definitely a lot to juggle. Of course, when you're, you
know, you have this passion, but then you also have a career that you really want to still do well at.

BWW [00:14:59] And you mentioned earlier that you were you are particularly drawn to the spotlight. How is it being like the saleswoman for your own work, how you need to go to these farmers markets, you to go to these events and you need to represent yourself and you to hawk yourself. Is that challenging for you?

SS [00:15:19] Yes, a lot of people some people may not think so, but it is I will definitely turn on the spotlight when I have to. I definitely had to do that recently at the Detroit Soup Competition. You know, when you're pitching, when you're hosting events, you definitely have to… you definitely have to be approachable. You want to be excited because if you're not excited, they're not going to be excited. They're not going to want to know your your why and how you came to be. So I definitely have to switch, you know, turn that light switch on and bring on that that personality. And not to say that's not genuinely who I am, but at the same token, though, you know, it's just I, I just enjoy doing what I do. And I think that's why it's even though that's not naturally who I am, I get excited about talking about what I do. If that makes sense.

BWW [00:16:27] And yeah, yeah, I completely understand that. I know how to turn it on and then I run back to my house and hide from everyone.

SS [00:16:33] Yeah.

BWW [00:16:34] I completely understand that. And so you went from like doing events like cooking some bakes and the farmer's market. Did it feel different for you to do something like the event at the Wright?

SS [00:16:48] So at the Wright? Oh, goodness. Yes and no. It was it was just on a larger scale, nothing different about it except for how many people were there. Okay. So yeah, it was, it was, it was awesome. So at this event, I had a deejay, which he has featured at several of my other events. Never I don't think I ever had him at Good Cakes and Bakes but and then we also had a bar. So in the Charles Wright. Provided that so it was called coloring and cocktails at the museum. And you know, women came in and they bought the cocktails and they they were just coloring. And we had the deejay there and he deftly made it a party for us. And also we had I don't I don't know if we had a coloring contest that day. I don't think we did. There were some coloring events where I actually had a coloring contest, so I would do that. And then if you win, you'll get one of my coloring books or coloring pillows and any type of merch that I had on site. I'll give that as a prize. So yeah, no, it was nothing different except for the fact that there were 500 women at that event and trying to get everyone in. There was a little bit of a challenge because again, you'll see people saying like, Oh, I'm coming, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be in attendance. I think over a thousand people RSVP, but I always count about half of that to show up. And I was like 500 people are not coming to this event. Yeah, no, they did so.

BWW [00:18:45] But I bet that was validating for you. You chose like the... Like the work that you're doing and the content you're putting out is worth it.

SS [00:18:53] Yeah, definitely.

BWW [00:18:56] When you're when you're working on how I lost my question, like I had it, and then it was gone. Well, I'm going to switch gears a little bit then. So you've mentioned that you've been out as far as Lansing and things like that. When you go out there, do you feel especially like when you leave the city or metro Detroit, do you feel like you're representing not only your work, but also the city.

SS [00:19:28] Definitely. Yeah. I think, you know, anyone that has a strong bond with their community is feel like they're representing where they come from. So, yeah, definitely.

BWW [00:19:42] Does that ever factor into the workshops you're doing or people perceive you when you go outside the city?

SS [00:19:48] I never thought about that. I yeah, I don't I don't know. I never I never thought about it in that way. I don't. I definitely try. But I never go in expecting people that, you know, I am. Representing this the city in a sense, or bringing my work or bringing the city into my work per se. Not to say that my work is not influenced by my upbringing, which is in overtly Detroit, because I was raised in Detroit, born and raised in Detroit. So. Oh, yeah, that's kind of. No, no, that's perfectly fine. Yeah.

BWW[00:20:37] As you've gone… going because this started in 2015. Have you seen the space getting more crowded? Like normally when you hit on a good idea, there are copycats. Have you seen stuff like that?

SS [00:20:51] So. Oh, I have. But then it kind of faded out. So everyone knows about sip and paints, right? And the coloring is pretty much the same idea. But again, you're using what coloring pencils, crayons, markers to, to create. And the one thing that I was doing as I was going through this journey was, okay, how can I elevate this experience beyond just a piece of paper? So like I said before, just recently I participated in the Grandma Rosedale Detroit Soup to propose my idea that I've been having since 2017, which is the Coloring Museum. So the idea behind the coloring museum is actually people coloring on the walls. So really bringing again, bringing that childhood, that when, you know, you weren't supposed to color on the walls, but you did anyway and actually making it available and you know, available to the public. I need to start this over again.

BWW [00:22:12] You're more than welcome to.

SS [00:22:13] Yes. So, yeah. Let me go back. So the one idea that I had to elevate this experience is the coloring museum. When it came down to copycats, you know, they kind of faded out. And I knew I needed to figure out of an idea to kind of elevate the experience beyond a piece of paper. So a couple of weeks ago, I participated in the Grand River I'm sorry, in the Grandma Rosedale Detroit Soup Competition to propose my idea for the Coloring Museum. So what the color museum is, is there will be black and white murals on the walls. These illustrations will be done by myself and other local artists that I will have to come in and have their illustrations in black and white for people to come in and color. So they'll have the experience of of a museum where they come in. They view the work they can read about the artists and the work, and then they can color on the wall. Those same illustrations will be on your traditional cardstock, paper and other materials such as pillows, T-shirts. You know, anything that I can think of that people could color on. It'll. It'll be available on that. So. So, yeah. No, I have not seen anything like that. Again, I'm always thinking of creative, fun ways for people to experience my work. And yeah, no, I'm still going. Even though, like I said, these coloring events, they kind of slow down a little
bit. One, because I'm in the process of rebranding, which is what I was speaking about, the coloring museum and then also creating new content. So, yeah, that's. That's it. I don’t want to keep rambling on.

BWW [00:24:25] Oh, no, you're doing great. Don't worry. Yeah, don't worry. So do you try to put out a new book every year or how does that.

SS [00:24:36] Yep. So I haven't put out any new content just yet, but I do have a new book that I will be coming out actually to. So one is called 25 Colorful Black Women and then 25 Colorful Emojis. So 25 colorful emojis is just the kids version of 24, 25 colorful black women. So those black women will be in emoji form.

BWW [00:25:05] Very nice. You're answering some of my questions. I had some. I'm just trying to pick apart. So how did... So you mentioned, like, the coloring events slowed down a bit. How did COVID affect you? Were you able to do like a virtual version of it or did it completely interrupt you?

SS [00:25:35] Yeah. No, it completely interrupted me, only because there were so many other things I was going on. I…the office for me, going into the office was my way to socialize and interact with people. I live alone. So, you know, being at home, like with a lot of other people. Pretty much 24, seven definitely affected me. I had to look for other
creative outlets. You know, at the time it was illustrating just was not doing it for me. So I started baking. I started taking my emojis and making them into cakes. So yeah, I was doing that and then work itself. So I was doing a lot of hours long, some overtime because of COVID. Also, there was some freelance jobs that I did take on because of COVID. A lot of people started to start their business. They found that it was the opportunity for them to start their business. I was doing a lot of logos, you know, so yeah, a lot of business stuff. So for other people and not myself. So I was okay with that, to be honest with you. I don't think I was in the mindset to be able to focus on Naturally Illustrated at the time. So even though the beginning of the year, I was actually partnering with another another artist, she's a designer and her and I were collaborating on a coloring event. And that was so her and I, we talked literally at the beginning of the year. We secured the space at the Grand River workplace for May, and we held out for a little bit, and then we finally canceled. Yeah.

BWW [00:27:41] Did you do you think that that break from Naturally Illustrated. Maybe like spurred, like creative juices later on or perhaps even like saved it like so you didn't like didn't grow resentful of the project or anything like that?

SS [00:27:56] So what really helped me with that break was it actually made me refocus on what was important, and that's my illustrations. The purpose of the coloring events, it wasn't meant to be a thing. It was not meant to be part of my business model. So when I first illustrated the coloring book, I wanted to get into major retail stores. Did my homework, did the research. And I think between just the lack of resources and the information to kind of going over my head, it didn't happen. So I needed a way to market the coloring books. And that was hosting the coloring events, which fortunately for me became really popular. So in 2020, yeah, it definitely made me rethink about naturally illustrated how I wanted to move forward. Because one of the things that happened during the beginning time of my business, up until 2020, things started to shift, whereas people
knew who I was as an illustrator and that I was the illustrator to me actually fading out to, Oh, here's a coloring event. So then it got to a point like, Oh, I didn't know you were the illustrator. Oh, I didn't know you were the one host of this event. Whereas before they knew who I was and that's me. I'm not… even though I'm pretty good at it, I'm not an event planner. That's not my business. That's not who I am. I'm an illustrator. So I said to myself, How can I be this illustrator? And I'm not illustrating because here it is. I'm coordinating these events. So, you know, in 2021, I got back with my mentor at Tech Town I said, okay, we got to restructure some things. We have to try to figure out how we're going to get Naturally illustrated. It's where I want to be. And, you know, what does that Naturally illustrated look like moving forward? Because there's not a coloring of it. Naturally illustrated is not a coloring event. It's it's my illustrations. So so in 2020, I one of the goals was to get into big box stores. And fortunately my mentor found an opportunity for me to pitch my my product to Meijer and now my coloring books are in Meijer stores so so now I'm at a point whereas I'm just focused on the illustrations focus on the the emojis, which I will soon be animating as well, having little animation shorts, just really trying to create more content. Not to say that again, the coloring events aren't going away because again, we're going to have the coloring museum. But again, that will still I will still be able to create because here it is, I'm creating my murals, right. So so yeah, definitely 2020 was needed for me to stop in and, and think about. What is naturally illustrated because I think you know things that the goal…The purpose got lost in the shuffle of the marketing. So.

BWW [00:32:02] How did it feel for you to after that, you got the word that your work was going to be be sold in Meijer?

SS [00:32:11] Oh, my goodness. I was relieved. I think that's the right word, because here it is. Because I was. That was last year. So here it is, you know, in 2016. That was always the goal. And now we're, you know, five years later, finally in the stores and, you know, for a long time, to be honest with you, I thought a lot of the work that I was put into Naturally illustrated was going in vain as far as like the coloring. And that's because I. I will say to myself, okay, what am I doing with this? At the end of the day, you know, I'm pushing these books, but like I said, I wasn't creating content, but coloring events was not what I was trying to do long term. And I don't know, it was just I was very excited and I just knew that everything that I did did not go in vain. Because one of the things that I do have are those coloring events to prove to people that, hey, my customer like this, they want this, there's a demand for it. So when I am pitching, I have validation, I have proof. So. So, yeah, no, it was I was definitely happy. I was relieved. And I knew that, you know, everything that I worked for it, everything that I've been doing has been correct. Because sometimes you do have that doubt, you know, hey, am I am I supposed to be doing this? And and, you know, and I'm learning as well that regardless to if you're doing something, regardless to how you're going about executing something, whether it was the right move or not, it's okay because it doesn't come with a manual. At the end of the day. People can give you advice all day long and it could be the right advice. It could definitely help you out, but there's definitely going to be trial and error moments that you're just going to have to go through. And yeah, and I definitely went through them.

BWW [00:34:30] And how do you feel now? Like, how do you feel about the is there do you have the right balance right now?

SS [00:34:37] No, no. I am still so because this is…I'm working towards it, though. I would definitely say that I know what needs to happen moving forward. So I guess you could kind of say I'm in the midst of all of that, kind of in the midst of the storm of trying to figure out what that balance is. What does that look like? You know? You know, what
freelance work am I taking on versus, you know, how much time I'm putting into my own projects as an illustrator? You know, definitely I would say and I'm and I'm okay in the space that I'm in right now, you know, I feel good about it. I have some really great ideas now. It's just one of those things, just trying to do that time management and again reevaluating my goals for the upcoming year. So I know that I'm feeling good about what I'm doing, and then I'm also not burning myself out.

BWW [00:35:42] Is it important to you to take those side gigs as a freelance worker?

SS [00:35:47] Yes, it is. A few things is another source of income. You know, it it definitely brings on new clients. It kind of challenges your creativity as well. I…you know, I definitely depending on the project and I don't take on any project that I do not enjoy. But and I think part of the reason I'm able to do that, because I still have a full time job. So but yeah, if it's not a reflection of, of who I am as an artist, because it's a difference between, you know, being artists or maybe having that, that agency where, you know, you're you're trying to fit in that mold of what they want versus they're hiring you because they like your work. And so I want, you know, my clients coming to me because they like my work, they like my style of work, and they want that applied to whatever project they have going on. So I am selective. And like I said, I do believe that it definitely challenges me creatively and kind of get my creative juices flowing outside of what I'm doing personally. So, so yeah, no, but I definitely am once again trying to find that balance on how much work I take outside of Naturally Illustrated.

BWW [00:37:34] If you look, once you find that balance, you still do you do you expect that you're still take on that side of work? So you get those random, like bursts of challenge or new inspiration so you can bring it back to your old work or, you know, your old work. But Naturally Illustrated.

SS [00:37:50] Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So, you know, I never I could never see myself. Not doing that because I do feel like that will still be a part of my my revenue stream outside of creating, you know, coloring books or even just, you know, children's storybooks. And so people don't have to color because I know that not everyone wants a craft project, and that's perfectly fine. But yeah, so, you know, as an artist or just any business owner, you have to have those multiple revenue streams. So no, that will never go away.

BWW [00:38:35] Has there been any part of naturally illustrated that you wanted to take the story of it or the execution of it? I should say that you wanted to share with me that I didn't ask you about.

SS[00:38:46] Oh, my goodness. That's a good question. Yes. So naturally, I want I want to make one thing clear. Naturally illustrated is not just about hair. It did start off about hair, but it's about celebrating yourself as an individual, as a black person. The goal of Naturally Illustrated is to dissolve the segregation within the black community of what is being black. And that's the reason for the emojis. That's the reason for the coloring books, is to explain to us we all support each other because here it is. You know, our our community, we're so enriched with culture and we kind of pick and choose what we want, how we want to represent ourselves as a black person. And that's okay. And I feel that sometimes if we're not doing something that's quote unquote black, you're not black. And I want to…I want to erase that that stigma. And that's what Naturally Illustrated is about. Being illustrated as who you are as yourself. So naturally illustrated. Right. So, yeah, that's, you know, that's the message that I want to come across, because a lot of people
think, oh, you know, it's about hair and hair care started off as that, but it has evolved into so much more.

BWW [00:40:32] And have people been receptive to that?

SS[00:40:34] Oh, definitely. Yeah, definitely. People, you know, love the message and they agree with it.

BWW [00:40:41] How does that feel?

SS [00:40:42] Feels awesome. Yeah, because I don't think there's I haven't seen a company yet to kind of call that out. You know, we we know it's there. But I actually call out the the segregation in the black community, it I don't think it has been done yet within a business. Again, you know, every black business or black person represents themselves in their own unique way. And I want to celebrate that through my my work.

BWW [00:41:19] That's great.

SS [00:41:20] Yeah.

BWW [00:41:23] On the business side of things. So you have your books in Meijer? Do you have plans on getting them in other big box stores?

SS [00:41:30] Of course, that is the goal, and that will always be the goal. I do have some things in the works. I don't want to.

BWW [00:41:38] No pressure.

SS [00:41:39] Yeah. I don't want to express that right now. But just know that, you know, that is going on behind the scenes. Definitely.

BWW [00:41:48] And another kind of like Detroit based question. How does it feel for you knowing that you as a Detroiter are filling this niche? And it's not just impacting Detroiters, impacting people across the state and wherever Meijer is putting your books in their stores.

SS[00:42:04] Right. Oh, my goodness. So the question is, is how do I feel about that impact?

BWW [00:42:11] Yes. How do you feel about that? But also, how do you feel that a Detroiter is doing it?

SS [00:42:14] Oh, um, I never really thought about that again. You know, I'm yeah, I'm a Detroiter. I just I never really have put myself in that box of a Detroiter. I'm proud that I am a Detroiter. I come from Detroit, and there's some great things that's happening in Detroit. I know. Goodness gracious. I can't remember what news article, but I feel like, if I'm not mistaken, it was said that Detroit is like one of the top ten cities that you need to visit now. You know, it's just, you know, Detroit is definitely going through a renaissance period. I'm very happy and I'm proud to be a part of that journey with Detroit. And but as far as, you know, making an impact as a Detroiter, I don't really think about that. I just think about just making an impact. Yeah.

BWW [00:43:10] Yeah. Cool. Just last two questions for you. What do you think of the word hustle or you hear the word hustle? What comes to mind?

SS [00:43:21] Oh, my goodness. Just forever striving. Forever grinding. Forever working towards your goals. Yeah.

BWW [00:43:36] And then what do you think of when you hear the word hustler?

SS [00:43:39] Hustler? Oh, goodness. I. For whatever reason, it has a very negative… hustler to me. I don't. It just has a very negative impact for me. I. I hustle. But in again, this might just be a stigma type thing, but I don't consider myself as a hustler. I do consider hustling right now because that's what I've been doing. And so I can say that, okay, yeah, this is established as a business because I do feel like there's a little bit of a difference between a hustle versus a business because a hustle you're again, like, I'm saying, you're grinding. You're, you're trying to strive for that goal. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you're striving for that goal to be a business, but maybe just to get a message out or to get a product out, because this is something that you enjoy doing, right? A lot of times people do things that's not so much established as a business, but they doing it because they enjoy doing it. So yeah, I…for whatever reason I can relate to hustle, but I can't relate to the hustler.

BWW [00:45:13] That you are not alone in that the other people are doing the same thing. All right. Is there anything else you'd like to share today?

SS [00:45:19] Nah, I think that's about it.

BWW[00:45:21] All right. Thank you so much. This is great. Yeah.