Seajoseffer Spencer, September 1st, 2022
Title
Seajoseffer Spencer, September 1st, 2022
Description
In this interview, Seajoseffer Spencer talks about his restaurant and partner of the business Doug Morrison.
Publisher
Detroit Historical Society
Rights
Detroit Historical Society
Language
en-US
Narrator/Interviewee's Name
Seajoseffer Spencer
Brief Biography
Seajoseffer Spencer bought his first restaurant in 1983 with Doug Morrison. Together they have operated the legendary restaurant Louisiana Creole Gumbo.
Interviewer's Name
Billy Wall-Winkel
Interview Place
Detroit, MI
Date
9/01/2022
Interview Length
43:02
Transcriptionist
Taylor Claybrook
Transcription
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:00:00] Hello. My name is Billy Wall-Winkel. This interview is for the Detroit Historical Society's Hustle Project. We are in Detroit, Michigan, and today is September 1st, 2022. I'm sitting down with…
Joe Spencer [00:00:13] Seajoseffer Spencer, but known by most folks as Joe Spencer.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:00:19] Thank you so much. Can you please spell your name for me?
Joe Spencer [00:00:21] My full name is Seajoseffer, last name Spencer.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:00:31] Thank you for that. And congratulations again on being one of the honorees.
Joe Spencer [00:00:36] Well, I'm excited about it. Thank you.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:00:38] Awesome. Let's get some just some baseline stuff out of the way real quick. What year did the restaurant open?
Joe Spencer [00:00:44] The restaurant opened in 1970. It was opened by a gentleman by the name of Joe Stafford. And I had the good fortune. Me and another friend who is my partner, Doug Morrison, bought the restaurant from the original owner, Joe Stafford, in 1983.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:01:05] Did the restaurant have the same name when it opened in 1970?
Joe Spencer [00:01:09] A very similar name. The name of the restaurant in 1970 was Louisian Creole Gumbo. But we changed it to Louisiana Creole gumbo because of some conflict with the company in. In Louisiana that had the name Louisiana. It was Louisian Coffee Company. And when it was discovered that we were using the same name, they asked us to cease and desist. And we changed our name to Louisiana Creole gumbo.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:01:44] And what year did you change it?
Joe Spencer [00:01:46] 1983.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:01:47] Oh, okay. Did you happen to work at the restaurant before you purchased it or did you were you a fan of it? And then the opportunity came up. How did that come about?
Joe Spencer [00:02:02] Well, it's an interesting story. This is back in 1982. My friend Doug and I were downtown I lived in downtown Detroit at that time. And we're looking down on the crowd of people, because I lived in a high rise apartment building. And we were talking and I asked him to join me in an investment I wanted to make in real estate, as was a small apartment building on Detroit's West Side. I was interested in acquiring, and so I asked him what he would you be my partner? And he was like, Yes, sure. We've talked about it for a minute. And as we're looking down at the people walking downtown, Joe, Doug said, Hey, Joe, I got another idea that we might want to consider. I say, What's that? He says, You see all those people walking down there? He says, You know, I bet you there's a restaurant over on Gratiot. There's some really, really good food. And Louisiana Creole gumbo. Louisian Creole gumbo. I bet you we could probably go to this guy and ask
him for a franchise and we would come downtown and do a little franchise down here and do real good with the food. I said, okay, so I'll tell you what, let's flip a coin. I went to toss. We'd go see about the real estate when the toss would go see the guy about the restaurant, and he won the toss. And as a result of that we went to the restaurant. I'd never been there before, but I tried the food and I instantly fell in love with the food. It was so good and I was like, okay, great. So we made an appointment with the owner and we made our proposal to the owner, you know, that we want to do a franchise. And Mr. Stafford said to us as well fellas, you know, if you do come to me ten years ago. That would have been great. But I'm ready to retire, he said. So I tell you what. If you can come up with X amount of dollars and wasn’t a lot of money. He says, I will say this restaurant lock, stock and barrel. I'll sell you know my name how do the food everything the business itself and you know, I'll do that for you guys. And then he also agreed to stay. In fact, he stayed for a full year. After he bought that, we bought the restaurant. We took possession of it. Coming to work every day. He's showing us how to operate the restaurant. That’s the story.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:04:26] I bet that that grace period he gave you was invaluable.
Joe Spencer [00:04:30] Oh, yes. I mean, you know, here's the other side of the story. At that time, I was working for WGPR TV. I had a really good job of director of programing. I was making good money and I wasn't really when I was making the pros, I was looking for kind of a a passive investment, not an active investment where I would actually be involved in trying to make it work. So we brought on another partner fellow by the name of Charles Martin. And Charles, we made him the managing partner because my partner, Doug, he also had a good job. He was working for Michigan Bill at that time. It was Michigan Bill that wasn't AT&T. And excuse me. And. So we brought on Charles and Charles did the day to day for us. And so, yeah. Mr. Stanford coming in every day showing us not only how to prepare the food, but how to how to shop for the vendors to use. You know, how to know when when the food is at its premium, you know how to price the food, just the whole thing, you know, and you know, to keep this customer base because he had a really good solid customer base. In fact, one of the things that made it such a good investment because he had such a good reputation, the restaurant was doing fine. It was not a distressed restaurant with a restaurant doing great, and he was just ready to retire.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:05:57] Looking back do aside from. Managing the restaurant. Are there any lessons that he taught you in that year that still stick with you?
Joe Spencer [00:06:08] Well, yeah, you know, he taught me about, uh, about employees. How to manage employees. He taught me about the food cause I didn't know anything about Creole style food gave me. Taught me the history of the food. And, you know, just what it took. And he also taught us how to keep the books together and all that. Because I'd never been in my own business, not like that. You know, I'd been in other kind of passive ventures, but not a business where you had employees. And as an example of one of the things he taught me, which was very eye opening, uh, one of the things we wanted to do is we want to really kind of have an aggressive approach to marketing respond to our customers. So it was like when a customer come in, you know, you make sure you ask them, you know, Hey, would you like some extra this and would you like some extra that and so forth? You know, and when we put it out there, he says, you know, you guys don't expect a lot from that. And there's a reason why he says because. People who are doing this kind of work, they don't necessarily like to have to ask people for stuff. They want to take the order and go. And, he says. And if they ask a person, that person rejects it, they're going to take it personal, you know, and that you know, and they're not
going to understand. It's going to take you and it's going to take some real effort to try to teach them that it's not personal, you know, that it is just you're just doing a job. And the person that you're asking is not rejecting you personally. It is saying no to what you’re asking them for the product, which was something that you wouldn't think of. You know, if you're not in that position. But he knew, you know, and he was right, you know, that, you know, the people just didn't didn't you know. Some would be okay with it, but some would just like, you know, they'd ask and you had to be standing there, right there looking at em for them to, you know, ask the customer for the extras, you know, would you like extra shrimp? Would you like a dessert with your dinner? Would you like a beverage? You know, that kind of thing. So that's just one of the things he taught me.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:08:13] So what was so what was the reaction of. The clientele to the changeover. Was their worry or was that kind of ease because he was there for a full year during the transition?
Joe Spencer [00:08:25] Well, you know, as a carryout restaurant, it was not really perceptible that there was a change, you know, because we kept the people who we had. Yeah, you know, the people out of the house people. So they did not see that difference. I mean, over time we changed it. But when we first got started there, you know, he was there to make sure we maintained the quality of the food and it was prepared in a way that that he had been doing so. No. And the customers, I mean, we didn't try to become the face of the of the, uh, of the business. You know, we just wanted to continue rolling on smoothly. So, no, no, no, no. Negative reaction at all.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:09:08] So what was the. Maybe, you know, maybe don't. But what was what was the makeup of the clientele at the time? Was it largely local residents or did you see as like the greater Detroit area coming to the restaurant?
Joe Spencer [00:09:20] Well, it had a really broad base clientele and still does because the uniqueness of the product, I mean, at that time. Joe Stafford was the first restaurant to introduce Creole style food to Detroit. That was no competitors serving gumbo, jambalaya, you know, those kinds of products. So when people experience it, you know, was the only place I could go. And because for those people who were traveling from New Orleans and were familiar with the food, they found that we had it. You know, they'd come back and we had people from all over. The largest part of the clientele were people who lived in the area, worked downtown, a lot of people who work downtown. You know, they came to the from the courts in the city kind of building into businesses downtown. And then, of course, the people who were in the area for three miles around, you know.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:10:18] And what was the neighborhood like when you first got the business in 83? Were there a lot of other restaurants still an eastern market or what was the makeup of the area?
Joe Spencer [00:10:28] Well, Eastern Market was..I think a little bit more vibrant back then, was a few more businesses there. There have always been restaurants in the area. You know, being a carryout restaurant, we're not in competition so much with the restaurants who do sit down service. You know, when we were there, right across the street from us was the very famous Joe Muers restaurant at that time, which was a very famous seafood restaurant. And so some of their customers with us as well, you know, I mean, they eat there and then come across and pick up carryout from us. So really a good make up of African-American, white, Latino, young, old, well-to-do and not so well-to-do people. Really good, good cross-section of people.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:11:18] And how has the neighborhood changed? So Louisiana creole gumbo has been in the same spot. Since then, it's been an anchor. But many other businesses have come and gone. What has been. What has that been like?
Joe Spencer [00:11:33] Well, I mean, you know, businesses ebbed and flowed based upon the economy and things going on in Detroit. So we've had some rough years and we've had some great years, but we've always been able to to stick. We've seen a lot of businesses come and go over the years, you know, including Joe Muer’s. It's a very famous restaurant. And there were other restaurants down, up and down Gratiot that we've seen come and go. And most of them I don't remember the names that names I, I know there was a barbecue place down the street and there was a little bar across the street. And, you know, there have been, you know, lots of different businesses throughout the eastern market. So but, you know, we it has not always been great times. You know, there's been times when things were pretty tough, but we were able to stick it out. Yeah.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:12:21] In any of those hard times. Did you ever think about selling the restaurant?
Joe Spencer [00:12:25] No, you know. You know, to me, I've always taken it on a spiritual level with this business because. Joe Stafford basically gave us the gift of his legacy because the money sold us the restaurant to was far below what it could do he could have sold it for. But when we came to him, he liked us. He liked what we were talking about. And he gave us his legacy. And it was always my dream and vision to continue to grow his legacy, because it is his legacy. We are still serving the same food that he taught us in the same way that he taught us. You know, we've added a few things over the years, but, you know, the basics of gumbo, jambalaya, creole red beans and rice, corn muffins, we've done those and have not changed the recipes. We've done variations or added new kinds of recipes. For instance, we have the gumbo supreme where we didn't have to gumbo supreme, it was there. But that's really a combination of the green beans and he's taught us how to do and put in for new tastes. But still, the fundamentals and all of our product is based upon three basic spices. They're very special spices, blends that only a handful of people know how to blend and they control the taste of the food, you know, that we use in everything in one way or another to have the consistency of our taste. But having this gift, as I say, from from Joe Stafford, I always wanted to continue to have it grow. And it would only be that I was forced to shut down, that I would have shut down, you know, and fortunately God has been with us and we have not had to do that.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:14:07] How has the business grown since you got it in 83?
Joe Spencer [00:14:12] Well, it's growing both in terms of how we operate as well as the revenue. You know, we've expanded to raise revenue ten times, you know, ten times what it was when we were there. We've grown from one restaurant we had when we bought the restaurant to now we have three restaurants. We also have two food trucks. And we did. And before the pandemic had a pretty good catering business as well. We've not done so much with that just because of people issues, you know, trying to get good employees to do that kind of service. But it's there and we will resume it. But yeah, we went from that one location to three and the two food trucks and the catering business. And also when we first bought the restaurant, it was only open five days a week. It was open Monday through Friday and it was only open from 11 to 5:30. You just did basically lunch business and we had a good business. But now you know. Well. In some ways we are operating the same way at the restaurant at Seven Mile and Orchard lake Road because we work with limited
hours now. Because of the shortage of good help now. And that really is a challenge for my business as it is with many other businesses that are in the service industry. It's just it's it's it's hard to find good people right now following the pandemic. And so we are still waiting for people to return to the workforce. And so we're working at a reduced capacity as a result of that.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:16:10] So going in that same thread there, what was it like for you? So you mentioned that you weren't going to close the restaurant unless you guys shut down. What was it like getting shut down for the stay at home order back in 2020?
Joe Spencer [00:16:23] Well. I mean, that was that was not a shut down, as you would think from lack of business was shut down because of the governor's mandate. And you know what she had asked all businesses to do. And, and, but even more so because my employees were afraid to come to work. You know, a lot of my employees are people who don't necessarily have cars. So they had to catch the bus and they were afraid to get on the bus. And the public transportation, a lot of them were living with older people in their homes and they didn't want to bring back something that would harm their, you know, people in their families. And some were just afraid for themselves, you know, so it was a scary time. But we weren't closed for about three months. We closed in April and we were able to open in July. So we're about three months closing and once we open. Because there were so few restaurants open at the time. We did a lot of business, you know, so it was good, but we could have done more. But we didn't have the people standing along long lines and, you know, just waiting a long period of time for us to do it because we worked with half the staff that we would normally work with. So that was problematic for us.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:17:44] And I'm guessing the I can assume from within being willing to stand in the long lines that they were enthusiastic that you were back.
Joe Spencer [00:17:50] Of course they were, you know, because we were the the opposite of the fast food restaurant, you know, the burgers and fries. I mean, we had real food. We were cooking from scratch food, you know. I mean, it's a wholesome food, you know. So, yeah, they were glad to get a decent meal, you know? Yeah. Yeah, very much so.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:18:09] Have you seen traffic at your location on Gratiot return to pre pandemic levels?
Joe Spencer [00:18:25] Yes and no. When we first opened up because there was no competition. Like I said, we'd be busy all day long, you know, and we I think we picked up a lot of new customers as a result of that because they didn't have any other options. But as the economy has begin to open up, you know, things have kind of backed off a little bit. And we're doing fine. We're doing fine financially, you know. But we were doing business like we've not seen before. The pandemic, you know, was greater than what we were doing before the pandemic when we for that first almost year and then, like I see as other restaurants begin to open and people get we begin to get and have more options for decent food, you know, restaurants that could sit down in restaurants that were cooking food, not just. Burgers and fries and fried chicken. Yeah, right, exactly. So it kind of backed off, but we're fine.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:19:24] During that period, you mentioned, you pick up some new customers. I like how Joe had to explain it to you. Do you. Do you find yourself explaining
what Creole food is to people when they show up? Like like, say, a new customer walks in, like, tell me what this is.
Joe Spencer [00:19:39] Absolutely. Yeah. So many people get recommendations from other people saying, try that restaurant. It's good. Of course, when they come in, it's like, Well, okay, the food's good. Look around on the menu. So what is what? So yeah, so we do have to explain what the food is and the taste involved and what's spicy and what's not spicy. A lot of people have the perception that all our food is spicy, which is not at all true. You know, we have a very flavorful food and we do have some spicy food, but we have food that's just it's just flavorful, not spicy. You know, our red beans are not spicy. Our Creole is not spicy. Our gumbo is we have hot versions and mild versions, you know, jambalaya. We have mild versions, hot versions and very hot versions. And then, of course, we sell we sell Southern food, too. I mean, we sell, uh, baked chicken and barbecue. Chicken and meatloaf. Homemade meatloaf and fried catfish and, you know. Macaroni and cheese, collard greens, candied yams, green beans. You know, there's just good Southern dishes that make up a really solid meal. Yeah.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:20:57] What is your favorite item on the menu?
Joe Spencer [00:21:01] It has changed over over the years. The dish that that made me fall in love with this was shrimp Creole that was like it was so different for taste. And but I love all of the food and I eat it all the time because we have such a wide variety and I have my
own way of mixing the food. I take some gumbo and mix them jambalaya with it and put some Cajun sausage in it. And then tomorrow I'll have some red beans and I'll put some shrimp in it. And, you know, and I still have some meatloaf and, you know, and so we have enough food. I eat it all the time. And the red beans. I never get tired of red beans and rice. Really good.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:21:41] Yeah. I'm with you on that. So what was it like for you… We're going to go back a little bit. To expanding the business. So you have this successful carry out downtown. Just outside. Downtown. What is it like for you to add those other locations?
Joe Spencer [00:21:57] Well, I'm always finding money to do that. You know, I mean, because it takes a considerable investment, you know, to do a restaurant because you just can't go into a building and start selling food. You know, there's a lot of infrastructure you have to put into a building, a lot of equipment you have to put into it, you know, and the access to infrastructure, specialized infrastructure, you know, for safety and health and, you know. So that is always a challenge. Find the right space and and having the funding to be able to build it out. And then of course it is the whole notion of finding that new customer base. You know, and the thing is, I had to learn this. It's really tricky. When you open up a new restaurant. You're likely to get a lot of customers, people who want to experience your food, try it out. You know. And if you do like I did, which was foolish, in the first restaurant we opened up, we opened up a restaurant on Livernois, just north of Six Mile. Back in 1988. That was five years after we'd open our first open. We've taken control of Louisiana Creole, and when we opened the doors, the business was so tremendous. Well, I got caught in two ways. Number one, it was so it was more than we expected. So as a result. We were not turning out the quality of food we should have. Trying to keep up with the mass of people and I did not realize that at the time. Uh, but. And we were making so much money, I thought we'd hit the jackpot. But you know, three months after we opened, then, you know, things began to wane, you know, and we settled into what turned out to be. What was the normal course of business, you know? But, you know, when you start off and you're making $1,000,000 in this one little restaurant, you
know what I mean? This was back in 88. It was like, wow, you know what I mean? And like, oh, man, we are on really a great path here. You know, we weren't making $1,000,000 with a projection of $1,000,000 a year. What it was was we made $1,000,000 in the first month. But but we were on a path for $1,000,000, which was far more than what we expected to do back there in 1988. And so I was seeing dollars where it were not dollars, so to speak, and I was being overwhelmed by the amount of customers. So we weren't maintaining our quality, but we adjusted that, you know what I mean? But over time. But that's one of the challenges you can have with opening a new restaurant, you know, is that understanding where you at, getting your new people in place and making sure they're doing it like you want to have done. You know, you're maintaining your quality. You're treating your customers like you want them to be treated and that, uh, you have a good path for where you're going in terms of who's going to come to you, who's going to come and patronize your business.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:25:22] And so you said you have three locations now.
Joe Spencer [00:25:25] Well, we have, of course, our original location on Gratiot and St. Aubin, just on the south end of Eastern Market. We have a second location on Detroit's west side. Uh, it's seven mile. We're seven mile just east of Schaefer, so that she has that seven mile and Hartwell. And then we have our third restaurant at Orchard Lake and 13 mile Road in Farmington Hills.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:26:08] And when did you open those two locations?
Joe Spencer [00:26:11] Well, you know, over the life of the restaurant, we've actually opened five restaurants. We opened the one at. At Livernois and six mile in 1988 we closed it in. 1998. No, no, 19, 1996, 97. We had about eight year run there. And then we opened a restaurant in downtown Detroit in the Rosa Parks Transit Center, and that was a venture that never developed like it was supposed to. So we were there about three years. That was in 2011. We closed in 2014. And then we opened our restaurant at Seven mile and Schafer the end of 2016. So it's been there since then. And we opened the restaurant at Orchard Lake at 13 mile. Last year, 2021.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:27:14] And how did it feel going from, say, uneasy times in 2020 to opening up a new restaurant in 2021?
Joe Spencer [00:27:23] Well, you know, we had already had plans of opening the restaurant at Orchard Lake Road. We already had the funding in place, and we had actually started the contractors to start but it was all shut down. You know if, if we had known the pandemic was coming we made it. Might have made different plans you know. But we were already engaged, we already had a contract for the space. So it was really just a matter of waiting till we could get the project going again, you know. And we believe we lost a lot of momentum in that, in that, you know, because we were down, we were planning on being open in 2020. Okay. We we had started in 20 in February 2020, we thought by fall of 2020, 2020, we would have been open. But we didn't even begin working on the restaurant until the winter of 2020. And, you know, we finally got it done in 2021 and then opened in late 2021. But you know, like I say, we lost a lot of momentum because we had a lot of things going. We had people, we had all kinds of things going. But we're still struggling to get the amount of people that we need to operate the restaurant unfortunately grow. We originally had planned for it to be a sit down restaurant. But because of the pandemic, we had to just settle for it being a carryout restaurant. So we still at this time and this is September 2022, struggling with the idea of getting the right amount of people
so we could do a sit down service there. So that's the kind of challenge that the pandemic had on us.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:29:09] Was is the location at Seven Mile also carry out or is it sit down. Joe Spencer [00:29:25] Well, it too had the capacity to sit down but its carry out. Billy Wall-Winkel [00:29:30] Okay. You know.
Joe Spencer [00:29:31] It had a less of a sit down capacity. We were able to seat about 12 people in there in the restaurant because we really care at a restaurant. It was designed to care about restaurant, but with seating for people who wanted to sit down, but not so much as a sit down restaurant. But at Orchard Lake, we had seating for 36 people there. So it was definitely designed for people to sit down and enjoy a meal. But we have not done that because, you know, the concern about pandemic and the concern about being able to deliver the kind of service that would require a visit now, you know.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:30:07] And I would think that being a carryout restaurant would lend itself well to being a food truck. But does your menu lend itself well to being a food truck?
Joe Spencer [00:30:18] Oh, absolutely. Because let me just explain. Our food trucks, we have what we call mobile food trucks. They are not mobile kitchens.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:30:26] Oh, you.
Joe Spencer [00:30:27] Know, they are the kind of food that we prepare the food in our restaurant. We package it in our restaurant, we put it on the stove. These trucks we have have ovens on them that maintain the temperature oven and they have cold spots so that we can keep anything cold and we travel with it, you know, like we when we were active and we're not active like we should be now, we were going to hospitals. You know, basically servicing the workers there to the factories and to offices. We had a route that they would go in. And so, you know, we would do this. People would know we were coming. They would plant their lunch for us, around us. And when we arrived, they'd come out and we'd quickly bag their stuff and give it to them, you know? So it was very good for that.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:31:13] You know.
Joe Spencer [00:31:14] And you know, we're not cooking on the truck. It's the popular food trucks now are mobile kitchens, but we're not a mobile kitchen. We are mobile food truck. You know, so a little different.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:31:26] I just imagine, like the scale of it, I was like, that sounds like a lot of space, a lot of stuff to fit in the small space. When… mean, are there plans to get that ramped back up?
Joe Spencer [00:31:39] The only thing that's holds up is people. It's a people issue all the way, you know, because you're going to have people who. I have a business just because basically operating an independent business, you know, and so they're kind of on their own. So you've got to have people who have the integrity to maintain the property. They have to have a driver's license. You'd be surprised that many people don't have driver's license. Which is an unfortunate thing here. But, you know, so they have to have the
integrity and the love, the food and, you know, be able to operate it as an independent business because. They're out there with the truck, with the product on their own. And they could make mistakes that could hurt us. So we have to be very careful about making sure we got the right people out there and we just haven't found the people. So we haven't rushed to it. You know, because you come back the new trucks, so they'll be good. We're not going anywhere, so we're okay with it.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:32:39] Is there anything about running the business or your time in time with the restaurant that you wanted to share or you want to talk about? I didn't ask you about.
Joe Spencer [00:32:55] Well, I mean, I can just tell you about my vision for the restaurant. We have a vision that because of the universal appeal of our food. Because any and everybody like the food because you know it's not it's not as we are a black owned restaurant we are not a soul food restaurant as people identify with. We serve Southern food but not so we don't put pork in food or anything. We even sell pork in our store. You know what I mean? A lot of people have they're like, no, no, you pork, you know? And so we don't do that. And because we are moderately priced product, we think we have the ability to expand throughout Michigan. And certainly throughout the Midwest, actually, our long term plans actually have it. Developing stores and businesses down the I-75 corridor, which is basically, you know, all of the major cities that are east and west of I-75, within a hundred miles, every two miles, we'd have stores in those places. And so. We are perfecting our model for that with the hopes of still doing that. I mean, the pandemic hurt us terribly in terms of that because we had, as I said before, we were planning on during 2020 of opening that Farmington store, which was going to give us the experience to working outside of the city. And that was going to be part of how we would model the rest of our business. And and then once we had the model completed, then. We're going to look for investors to help us in expansion. You know, and so with the idea of. Maybe getting a partner in Toledo to expand the creole to Toledo and on down to Cincinnati and on down all the way down to Florida is what our vision has. But we've been retarded in doing that because of the pandemic is just throwing everything off. Our people is an issue. Money is an issue, you know what I mean? Just the development is is this has been, you know, done it. By that. So but we're still optimistic that can happen. We're just waiting for things to just normalize a little bit more, you know, because people are always going to eat food, you know, and people actually there's a trend of people eating out more than before. And with the idea that people are looking for a good, solid meal that has wholesome food, I mean, we cook stuff from scratch. I mean, you don't you won't find cans of of of the stuff we use. You know what I mean? We used to cook up 99% of stuff. We cook right from scratch, you know. And so as the trend goes for healthier food, for quality, home cooked food with great taste, we think we are in a perfect position to expand that business and really serve communities all over the country.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:36:16] Especially people who don't eat hamburgers and fries on their way to Florida.
Joe Spencer [00:36:18] Yeah, well, we're thinking not just all the way to Florida. Everybody east and west.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:36:26] Now when I used to go visit my sister in law in South Carolina, it's like a 14 hour drive and I hate fast food. My wife and I would get a six pack of Bucharest and put it in the car.
Joe Spencer [00:36:40] And that's what I'm talking about. Because we. Billy Wall-Winkel [00:36:41] Couldn't. Yeah, because I couldn't do it.
Joe Spencer [00:36:44] And surprisingly, a lot of people just I don't eat fast food either, you know, I have not for years, you know. And, you know, there's a lot of people concerned about the quality of fast food and just how it feels makes the body feel, you know, so. Yeah. So that, that, that we're in the right trend for it.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:37:03] So what are your thoughts on the state of food in the city today? So you mentioned that when you started, you had like, you know, Joe Muer across the street. You had a bunch of different styles of food. What do you think of the food scene today?
Joe Spencer [00:37:14] It's very vibrant. It's a lot of new places that are opening up, particularly in the downtown and midtown area. A lot of restaurants with, with good, solid concepts and trying different things. And I think that's good. I think that's good to see because, you know, that's one of the things that that is unfortunate about Detroit. There are not a lot of restaurant, variety of restaurants in the city. You know, all the fast food restaurants. We don't need those. I mean, not a lot of people need fast food. They have to have it. But we need a lot more restaurants where you can get a good breakfast, you can get a good dinner, you get a good lunch at affordable prices. And I think there's a lot more room for that, that that level of food, you're not more places that could serve a good breakfast, you know, a lot more places that could have a decent, much good sandwich shop that are building the sandwiches from scratch, not flipping burgers, you know what I mean? Good soups for lunch, you know what I mean? And dinner, you know, everybody doesn't want to spend $50 a plate for a dinner, you know, so there's a lot of room for that market. But I still like what's going on in the marketplace. It's, it's a lot of new restaurants. So I think are doing well. There's been a few that come and gone. You know, that's how the business goes. But I think it's I think it's improved.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:38:42] Just a couple quick questions and then we're all wrapped up. When you hear the word hustle or you think of the word hustle, what comes to mind?
Joe Spencer [00:38:51] Well, it talked about an entrepreneurial spirit. I think somebody who. Is about. Let me take opportunity and make something of it independent, you know, so whether it's I'm going to start selling something, some product on the side, you know, out of the back of my car, or I'm going to start putting on shows or concerts or are going to see how I can operate in an inventive market. If I can invent something that people that but there is an entrepreneurial spirit. I thought as well, I think about someone with that spirit.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:39:30] And then when you think of the word hustler, what comes to mind? Joe Spencer [00:39:34] Someone who is active in an entrepreneurship. Billy Wall-Winkel [00:39:38] And then do you have a side hustle right now?
Joe Spencer [00:39:43] I do not have a side hustle. I am now the president of the WGPR historical society. I worked when I bought the restaurant off work for WG, PR and I continue to work for WG PR until it was sold to CBS. And then I worked for CBS as their director of programing for seven years, and I didn't I didn't stop working in the broadcast industry until 2001. 21 took a buyout from CBS, and that's when I began to be involved in my restaurants in the day to day operations. Okay. So so what happened is after I got
involved in the restaurant, so forth, and WGPR had been sold and went away. I still maintain some of the friendships that I had and we decided that the history of WGPR needed to continue because. That is in a historical place. It was the first black owned and operated television station in the entire nation. It was the first and we were part of it. We helped put it on the air and make it happen, you know. And it operated for 20 years and did some innovative things. And we thought that was a story to tell. And so we started the pursuit of. Of doing something to keep that spirit alive. And we actually we had really a really good relationship. And still I have a good relationship with the Detroit Historical Museum because one of our people who was significant in the Operation Development Restaurant, Miss Karen Hudson Samuels, was also a member of the Detroit Historic Detroit Historical Society's Black Historic.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:41:41] Yeah, Historic Sites Committee.
Joe Spencer [00:41:43] Yes, thank you. Thank you for that. Yes. And she was a member of that. And through that relationship, we began working with some of the people here at Historical Museum, and we had an exhibit we put together our first exhibit I think it was in 2016. We put our first exhibit together from that exhibit. The success of that, we convinced the owners of WGPR F.M. Radio because on radio station and TV station, convinced them to allow us to use the studios where the TV production used to be to build the museum. And we built a museum there. So I was elected president because I was the leader at the station when it was on the air. And so that's my side hustle, if you will, you know. But believe me right now, it's not that that has taken up a lot of my time. We are engaged, engaged and putting together a fundraiser coming up and this month in September. And so that's my side hustle, if you will. But it's a it's a nonprofit organization. I don't earn money from it. But it's is just a great joy to continue the legacy of WGPR.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:42:57] Thank you so much for speaking with us.
Joe Spencer [00:42:58] Well, it's my pleasure.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:43:00] It was a great thank you.
Joe Spencer [00:00:13] Seajoseffer Spencer, but known by most folks as Joe Spencer.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:00:19] Thank you so much. Can you please spell your name for me?
Joe Spencer [00:00:21] My full name is Seajoseffer, last name Spencer.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:00:31] Thank you for that. And congratulations again on being one of the honorees.
Joe Spencer [00:00:36] Well, I'm excited about it. Thank you.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:00:38] Awesome. Let's get some just some baseline stuff out of the way real quick. What year did the restaurant open?
Joe Spencer [00:00:44] The restaurant opened in 1970. It was opened by a gentleman by the name of Joe Stafford. And I had the good fortune. Me and another friend who is my partner, Doug Morrison, bought the restaurant from the original owner, Joe Stafford, in 1983.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:01:05] Did the restaurant have the same name when it opened in 1970?
Joe Spencer [00:01:09] A very similar name. The name of the restaurant in 1970 was Louisian Creole Gumbo. But we changed it to Louisiana Creole gumbo because of some conflict with the company in. In Louisiana that had the name Louisiana. It was Louisian Coffee Company. And when it was discovered that we were using the same name, they asked us to cease and desist. And we changed our name to Louisiana Creole gumbo.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:01:44] And what year did you change it?
Joe Spencer [00:01:46] 1983.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:01:47] Oh, okay. Did you happen to work at the restaurant before you purchased it or did you were you a fan of it? And then the opportunity came up. How did that come about?
Joe Spencer [00:02:02] Well, it's an interesting story. This is back in 1982. My friend Doug and I were downtown I lived in downtown Detroit at that time. And we're looking down on the crowd of people, because I lived in a high rise apartment building. And we were talking and I asked him to join me in an investment I wanted to make in real estate, as was a small apartment building on Detroit's West Side. I was interested in acquiring, and so I asked him what he would you be my partner? And he was like, Yes, sure. We've talked about it for a minute. And as we're looking down at the people walking downtown, Joe, Doug said, Hey, Joe, I got another idea that we might want to consider. I say, What's that? He says, You see all those people walking down there? He says, You know, I bet you there's a restaurant over on Gratiot. There's some really, really good food. And Louisiana Creole gumbo. Louisian Creole gumbo. I bet you we could probably go to this guy and ask
him for a franchise and we would come downtown and do a little franchise down here and do real good with the food. I said, okay, so I'll tell you what, let's flip a coin. I went to toss. We'd go see about the real estate when the toss would go see the guy about the restaurant, and he won the toss. And as a result of that we went to the restaurant. I'd never been there before, but I tried the food and I instantly fell in love with the food. It was so good and I was like, okay, great. So we made an appointment with the owner and we made our proposal to the owner, you know, that we want to do a franchise. And Mr. Stafford said to us as well fellas, you know, if you do come to me ten years ago. That would have been great. But I'm ready to retire, he said. So I tell you what. If you can come up with X amount of dollars and wasn’t a lot of money. He says, I will say this restaurant lock, stock and barrel. I'll sell you know my name how do the food everything the business itself and you know, I'll do that for you guys. And then he also agreed to stay. In fact, he stayed for a full year. After he bought that, we bought the restaurant. We took possession of it. Coming to work every day. He's showing us how to operate the restaurant. That’s the story.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:04:26] I bet that that grace period he gave you was invaluable.
Joe Spencer [00:04:30] Oh, yes. I mean, you know, here's the other side of the story. At that time, I was working for WGPR TV. I had a really good job of director of programing. I was making good money and I wasn't really when I was making the pros, I was looking for kind of a a passive investment, not an active investment where I would actually be involved in trying to make it work. So we brought on another partner fellow by the name of Charles Martin. And Charles, we made him the managing partner because my partner, Doug, he also had a good job. He was working for Michigan Bill at that time. It was Michigan Bill that wasn't AT&T. And excuse me. And. So we brought on Charles and Charles did the day to day for us. And so, yeah. Mr. Stanford coming in every day showing us not only how to prepare the food, but how to how to shop for the vendors to use. You know, how to know when when the food is at its premium, you know how to price the food, just the whole thing, you know, and you know, to keep this customer base because he had a really good solid customer base. In fact, one of the things that made it such a good investment because he had such a good reputation, the restaurant was doing fine. It was not a distressed restaurant with a restaurant doing great, and he was just ready to retire.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:05:57] Looking back do aside from. Managing the restaurant. Are there any lessons that he taught you in that year that still stick with you?
Joe Spencer [00:06:08] Well, yeah, you know, he taught me about, uh, about employees. How to manage employees. He taught me about the food cause I didn't know anything about Creole style food gave me. Taught me the history of the food. And, you know, just what it took. And he also taught us how to keep the books together and all that. Because I'd never been in my own business, not like that. You know, I'd been in other kind of passive ventures, but not a business where you had employees. And as an example of one of the things he taught me, which was very eye opening, uh, one of the things we wanted to do is we want to really kind of have an aggressive approach to marketing respond to our customers. So it was like when a customer come in, you know, you make sure you ask them, you know, Hey, would you like some extra this and would you like some extra that and so forth? You know, and when we put it out there, he says, you know, you guys don't expect a lot from that. And there's a reason why he says because. People who are doing this kind of work, they don't necessarily like to have to ask people for stuff. They want to take the order and go. And, he says. And if they ask a person, that person rejects it, they're going to take it personal, you know, and that you know, and they're not
going to understand. It's going to take you and it's going to take some real effort to try to teach them that it's not personal, you know, that it is just you're just doing a job. And the person that you're asking is not rejecting you personally. It is saying no to what you’re asking them for the product, which was something that you wouldn't think of. You know, if you're not in that position. But he knew, you know, and he was right, you know, that, you know, the people just didn't didn't you know. Some would be okay with it, but some would just like, you know, they'd ask and you had to be standing there, right there looking at em for them to, you know, ask the customer for the extras, you know, would you like extra shrimp? Would you like a dessert with your dinner? Would you like a beverage? You know, that kind of thing. So that's just one of the things he taught me.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:08:13] So what was so what was the reaction of. The clientele to the changeover. Was their worry or was that kind of ease because he was there for a full year during the transition?
Joe Spencer [00:08:25] Well, you know, as a carryout restaurant, it was not really perceptible that there was a change, you know, because we kept the people who we had. Yeah, you know, the people out of the house people. So they did not see that difference. I mean, over time we changed it. But when we first got started there, you know, he was there to make sure we maintained the quality of the food and it was prepared in a way that that he had been doing so. No. And the customers, I mean, we didn't try to become the face of the of the, uh, of the business. You know, we just wanted to continue rolling on smoothly. So, no, no, no, no. Negative reaction at all.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:09:08] So what was the. Maybe, you know, maybe don't. But what was what was the makeup of the clientele at the time? Was it largely local residents or did you see as like the greater Detroit area coming to the restaurant?
Joe Spencer [00:09:20] Well, it had a really broad base clientele and still does because the uniqueness of the product, I mean, at that time. Joe Stafford was the first restaurant to introduce Creole style food to Detroit. That was no competitors serving gumbo, jambalaya, you know, those kinds of products. So when people experience it, you know, was the only place I could go. And because for those people who were traveling from New Orleans and were familiar with the food, they found that we had it. You know, they'd come back and we had people from all over. The largest part of the clientele were people who lived in the area, worked downtown, a lot of people who work downtown. You know, they came to the from the courts in the city kind of building into businesses downtown. And then, of course, the people who were in the area for three miles around, you know.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:10:18] And what was the neighborhood like when you first got the business in 83? Were there a lot of other restaurants still an eastern market or what was the makeup of the area?
Joe Spencer [00:10:28] Well, Eastern Market was..I think a little bit more vibrant back then, was a few more businesses there. There have always been restaurants in the area. You know, being a carryout restaurant, we're not in competition so much with the restaurants who do sit down service. You know, when we were there, right across the street from us was the very famous Joe Muers restaurant at that time, which was a very famous seafood restaurant. And so some of their customers with us as well, you know, I mean, they eat there and then come across and pick up carryout from us. So really a good make up of African-American, white, Latino, young, old, well-to-do and not so well-to-do people. Really good, good cross-section of people.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:11:18] And how has the neighborhood changed? So Louisiana creole gumbo has been in the same spot. Since then, it's been an anchor. But many other businesses have come and gone. What has been. What has that been like?
Joe Spencer [00:11:33] Well, I mean, you know, businesses ebbed and flowed based upon the economy and things going on in Detroit. So we've had some rough years and we've had some great years, but we've always been able to to stick. We've seen a lot of businesses come and go over the years, you know, including Joe Muer’s. It's a very famous restaurant. And there were other restaurants down, up and down Gratiot that we've seen come and go. And most of them I don't remember the names that names I, I know there was a barbecue place down the street and there was a little bar across the street. And, you know, there have been, you know, lots of different businesses throughout the eastern market. So but, you know, we it has not always been great times. You know, there's been times when things were pretty tough, but we were able to stick it out. Yeah.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:12:21] In any of those hard times. Did you ever think about selling the restaurant?
Joe Spencer [00:12:25] No, you know. You know, to me, I've always taken it on a spiritual level with this business because. Joe Stafford basically gave us the gift of his legacy because the money sold us the restaurant to was far below what it could do he could have sold it for. But when we came to him, he liked us. He liked what we were talking about. And he gave us his legacy. And it was always my dream and vision to continue to grow his legacy, because it is his legacy. We are still serving the same food that he taught us in the same way that he taught us. You know, we've added a few things over the years, but, you know, the basics of gumbo, jambalaya, creole red beans and rice, corn muffins, we've done those and have not changed the recipes. We've done variations or added new kinds of recipes. For instance, we have the gumbo supreme where we didn't have to gumbo supreme, it was there. But that's really a combination of the green beans and he's taught us how to do and put in for new tastes. But still, the fundamentals and all of our product is based upon three basic spices. They're very special spices, blends that only a handful of people know how to blend and they control the taste of the food, you know, that we use in everything in one way or another to have the consistency of our taste. But having this gift, as I say, from from Joe Stafford, I always wanted to continue to have it grow. And it would only be that I was forced to shut down, that I would have shut down, you know, and fortunately God has been with us and we have not had to do that.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:14:07] How has the business grown since you got it in 83?
Joe Spencer [00:14:12] Well, it's growing both in terms of how we operate as well as the revenue. You know, we've expanded to raise revenue ten times, you know, ten times what it was when we were there. We've grown from one restaurant we had when we bought the restaurant to now we have three restaurants. We also have two food trucks. And we did. And before the pandemic had a pretty good catering business as well. We've not done so much with that just because of people issues, you know, trying to get good employees to do that kind of service. But it's there and we will resume it. But yeah, we went from that one location to three and the two food trucks and the catering business. And also when we first bought the restaurant, it was only open five days a week. It was open Monday through Friday and it was only open from 11 to 5:30. You just did basically lunch business and we had a good business. But now you know. Well. In some ways we are operating the same way at the restaurant at Seven Mile and Orchard lake Road because we work with limited
hours now. Because of the shortage of good help now. And that really is a challenge for my business as it is with many other businesses that are in the service industry. It's just it's it's it's hard to find good people right now following the pandemic. And so we are still waiting for people to return to the workforce. And so we're working at a reduced capacity as a result of that.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:16:10] So going in that same thread there, what was it like for you? So you mentioned that you weren't going to close the restaurant unless you guys shut down. What was it like getting shut down for the stay at home order back in 2020?
Joe Spencer [00:16:23] Well. I mean, that was that was not a shut down, as you would think from lack of business was shut down because of the governor's mandate. And you know what she had asked all businesses to do. And, and, but even more so because my employees were afraid to come to work. You know, a lot of my employees are people who don't necessarily have cars. So they had to catch the bus and they were afraid to get on the bus. And the public transportation, a lot of them were living with older people in their homes and they didn't want to bring back something that would harm their, you know, people in their families. And some were just afraid for themselves, you know, so it was a scary time. But we weren't closed for about three months. We closed in April and we were able to open in July. So we're about three months closing and once we open. Because there were so few restaurants open at the time. We did a lot of business, you know, so it was good, but we could have done more. But we didn't have the people standing along long lines and, you know, just waiting a long period of time for us to do it because we worked with half the staff that we would normally work with. So that was problematic for us.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:17:44] And I'm guessing the I can assume from within being willing to stand in the long lines that they were enthusiastic that you were back.
Joe Spencer [00:17:50] Of course they were, you know, because we were the the opposite of the fast food restaurant, you know, the burgers and fries. I mean, we had real food. We were cooking from scratch food, you know. I mean, it's a wholesome food, you know. So, yeah, they were glad to get a decent meal, you know? Yeah. Yeah, very much so.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:18:09] Have you seen traffic at your location on Gratiot return to pre pandemic levels?
Joe Spencer [00:18:25] Yes and no. When we first opened up because there was no competition. Like I said, we'd be busy all day long, you know, and we I think we picked up a lot of new customers as a result of that because they didn't have any other options. But as the economy has begin to open up, you know, things have kind of backed off a little bit. And we're doing fine. We're doing fine financially, you know. But we were doing business like we've not seen before. The pandemic, you know, was greater than what we were doing before the pandemic when we for that first almost year and then, like I see as other restaurants begin to open and people get we begin to get and have more options for decent food, you know, restaurants that could sit down in restaurants that were cooking food, not just. Burgers and fries and fried chicken. Yeah, right, exactly. So it kind of backed off, but we're fine.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:19:24] During that period, you mentioned, you pick up some new customers. I like how Joe had to explain it to you. Do you. Do you find yourself explaining
what Creole food is to people when they show up? Like like, say, a new customer walks in, like, tell me what this is.
Joe Spencer [00:19:39] Absolutely. Yeah. So many people get recommendations from other people saying, try that restaurant. It's good. Of course, when they come in, it's like, Well, okay, the food's good. Look around on the menu. So what is what? So yeah, so we do have to explain what the food is and the taste involved and what's spicy and what's not spicy. A lot of people have the perception that all our food is spicy, which is not at all true. You know, we have a very flavorful food and we do have some spicy food, but we have food that's just it's just flavorful, not spicy. You know, our red beans are not spicy. Our Creole is not spicy. Our gumbo is we have hot versions and mild versions, you know, jambalaya. We have mild versions, hot versions and very hot versions. And then, of course, we sell we sell Southern food, too. I mean, we sell, uh, baked chicken and barbecue. Chicken and meatloaf. Homemade meatloaf and fried catfish and, you know. Macaroni and cheese, collard greens, candied yams, green beans. You know, there's just good Southern dishes that make up a really solid meal. Yeah.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:20:57] What is your favorite item on the menu?
Joe Spencer [00:21:01] It has changed over over the years. The dish that that made me fall in love with this was shrimp Creole that was like it was so different for taste. And but I love all of the food and I eat it all the time because we have such a wide variety and I have my
own way of mixing the food. I take some gumbo and mix them jambalaya with it and put some Cajun sausage in it. And then tomorrow I'll have some red beans and I'll put some shrimp in it. And, you know, and I still have some meatloaf and, you know, and so we have enough food. I eat it all the time. And the red beans. I never get tired of red beans and rice. Really good.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:21:41] Yeah. I'm with you on that. So what was it like for you… We're going to go back a little bit. To expanding the business. So you have this successful carry out downtown. Just outside. Downtown. What is it like for you to add those other locations?
Joe Spencer [00:21:57] Well, I'm always finding money to do that. You know, I mean, because it takes a considerable investment, you know, to do a restaurant because you just can't go into a building and start selling food. You know, there's a lot of infrastructure you have to put into a building, a lot of equipment you have to put into it, you know, and the access to infrastructure, specialized infrastructure, you know, for safety and health and, you know. So that is always a challenge. Find the right space and and having the funding to be able to build it out. And then of course it is the whole notion of finding that new customer base. You know, and the thing is, I had to learn this. It's really tricky. When you open up a new restaurant. You're likely to get a lot of customers, people who want to experience your food, try it out. You know. And if you do like I did, which was foolish, in the first restaurant we opened up, we opened up a restaurant on Livernois, just north of Six Mile. Back in 1988. That was five years after we'd open our first open. We've taken control of Louisiana Creole, and when we opened the doors, the business was so tremendous. Well, I got caught in two ways. Number one, it was so it was more than we expected. So as a result. We were not turning out the quality of food we should have. Trying to keep up with the mass of people and I did not realize that at the time. Uh, but. And we were making so much money, I thought we'd hit the jackpot. But you know, three months after we opened, then, you know, things began to wane, you know, and we settled into what turned out to be. What was the normal course of business, you know? But, you know, when you start off and you're making $1,000,000 in this one little restaurant, you
know what I mean? This was back in 88. It was like, wow, you know what I mean? And like, oh, man, we are on really a great path here. You know, we weren't making $1,000,000 with a projection of $1,000,000 a year. What it was was we made $1,000,000 in the first month. But but we were on a path for $1,000,000, which was far more than what we expected to do back there in 1988. And so I was seeing dollars where it were not dollars, so to speak, and I was being overwhelmed by the amount of customers. So we weren't maintaining our quality, but we adjusted that, you know what I mean? But over time. But that's one of the challenges you can have with opening a new restaurant, you know, is that understanding where you at, getting your new people in place and making sure they're doing it like you want to have done. You know, you're maintaining your quality. You're treating your customers like you want them to be treated and that, uh, you have a good path for where you're going in terms of who's going to come to you, who's going to come and patronize your business.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:25:22] And so you said you have three locations now.
Joe Spencer [00:25:25] Well, we have, of course, our original location on Gratiot and St. Aubin, just on the south end of Eastern Market. We have a second location on Detroit's west side. Uh, it's seven mile. We're seven mile just east of Schaefer, so that she has that seven mile and Hartwell. And then we have our third restaurant at Orchard Lake and 13 mile Road in Farmington Hills.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:26:08] And when did you open those two locations?
Joe Spencer [00:26:11] Well, you know, over the life of the restaurant, we've actually opened five restaurants. We opened the one at. At Livernois and six mile in 1988 we closed it in. 1998. No, no, 19, 1996, 97. We had about eight year run there. And then we opened a restaurant in downtown Detroit in the Rosa Parks Transit Center, and that was a venture that never developed like it was supposed to. So we were there about three years. That was in 2011. We closed in 2014. And then we opened our restaurant at Seven mile and Schafer the end of 2016. So it's been there since then. And we opened the restaurant at Orchard Lake at 13 mile. Last year, 2021.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:27:14] And how did it feel going from, say, uneasy times in 2020 to opening up a new restaurant in 2021?
Joe Spencer [00:27:23] Well, you know, we had already had plans of opening the restaurant at Orchard Lake Road. We already had the funding in place, and we had actually started the contractors to start but it was all shut down. You know if, if we had known the pandemic was coming we made it. Might have made different plans you know. But we were already engaged, we already had a contract for the space. So it was really just a matter of waiting till we could get the project going again, you know. And we believe we lost a lot of momentum in that, in that, you know, because we were down, we were planning on being open in 2020. Okay. We we had started in 20 in February 2020, we thought by fall of 2020, 2020, we would have been open. But we didn't even begin working on the restaurant until the winter of 2020. And, you know, we finally got it done in 2021 and then opened in late 2021. But you know, like I say, we lost a lot of momentum because we had a lot of things going. We had people, we had all kinds of things going. But we're still struggling to get the amount of people that we need to operate the restaurant unfortunately grow. We originally had planned for it to be a sit down restaurant. But because of the pandemic, we had to just settle for it being a carryout restaurant. So we still at this time and this is September 2022, struggling with the idea of getting the right amount of people
so we could do a sit down service there. So that's the kind of challenge that the pandemic had on us.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:29:09] Was is the location at Seven Mile also carry out or is it sit down. Joe Spencer [00:29:25] Well, it too had the capacity to sit down but its carry out. Billy Wall-Winkel [00:29:30] Okay. You know.
Joe Spencer [00:29:31] It had a less of a sit down capacity. We were able to seat about 12 people in there in the restaurant because we really care at a restaurant. It was designed to care about restaurant, but with seating for people who wanted to sit down, but not so much as a sit down restaurant. But at Orchard Lake, we had seating for 36 people there. So it was definitely designed for people to sit down and enjoy a meal. But we have not done that because, you know, the concern about pandemic and the concern about being able to deliver the kind of service that would require a visit now, you know.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:30:07] And I would think that being a carryout restaurant would lend itself well to being a food truck. But does your menu lend itself well to being a food truck?
Joe Spencer [00:30:18] Oh, absolutely. Because let me just explain. Our food trucks, we have what we call mobile food trucks. They are not mobile kitchens.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:30:26] Oh, you.
Joe Spencer [00:30:27] Know, they are the kind of food that we prepare the food in our restaurant. We package it in our restaurant, we put it on the stove. These trucks we have have ovens on them that maintain the temperature oven and they have cold spots so that we can keep anything cold and we travel with it, you know, like we when we were active and we're not active like we should be now, we were going to hospitals. You know, basically servicing the workers there to the factories and to offices. We had a route that they would go in. And so, you know, we would do this. People would know we were coming. They would plant their lunch for us, around us. And when we arrived, they'd come out and we'd quickly bag their stuff and give it to them, you know? So it was very good for that.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:31:13] You know.
Joe Spencer [00:31:14] And you know, we're not cooking on the truck. It's the popular food trucks now are mobile kitchens, but we're not a mobile kitchen. We are mobile food truck. You know, so a little different.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:31:26] I just imagine, like the scale of it, I was like, that sounds like a lot of space, a lot of stuff to fit in the small space. When… mean, are there plans to get that ramped back up?
Joe Spencer [00:31:39] The only thing that's holds up is people. It's a people issue all the way, you know, because you're going to have people who. I have a business just because basically operating an independent business, you know, and so they're kind of on their own. So you've got to have people who have the integrity to maintain the property. They have to have a driver's license. You'd be surprised that many people don't have driver's license. Which is an unfortunate thing here. But, you know, so they have to have the
integrity and the love, the food and, you know, be able to operate it as an independent business because. They're out there with the truck, with the product on their own. And they could make mistakes that could hurt us. So we have to be very careful about making sure we got the right people out there and we just haven't found the people. So we haven't rushed to it. You know, because you come back the new trucks, so they'll be good. We're not going anywhere, so we're okay with it.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:32:39] Is there anything about running the business or your time in time with the restaurant that you wanted to share or you want to talk about? I didn't ask you about.
Joe Spencer [00:32:55] Well, I mean, I can just tell you about my vision for the restaurant. We have a vision that because of the universal appeal of our food. Because any and everybody like the food because you know it's not it's not as we are a black owned restaurant we are not a soul food restaurant as people identify with. We serve Southern food but not so we don't put pork in food or anything. We even sell pork in our store. You know what I mean? A lot of people have they're like, no, no, you pork, you know? And so we don't do that. And because we are moderately priced product, we think we have the ability to expand throughout Michigan. And certainly throughout the Midwest, actually, our long term plans actually have it. Developing stores and businesses down the I-75 corridor, which is basically, you know, all of the major cities that are east and west of I-75, within a hundred miles, every two miles, we'd have stores in those places. And so. We are perfecting our model for that with the hopes of still doing that. I mean, the pandemic hurt us terribly in terms of that because we had, as I said before, we were planning on during 2020 of opening that Farmington store, which was going to give us the experience to working outside of the city. And that was going to be part of how we would model the rest of our business. And and then once we had the model completed, then. We're going to look for investors to help us in expansion. You know, and so with the idea of. Maybe getting a partner in Toledo to expand the creole to Toledo and on down to Cincinnati and on down all the way down to Florida is what our vision has. But we've been retarded in doing that because of the pandemic is just throwing everything off. Our people is an issue. Money is an issue, you know what I mean? Just the development is is this has been, you know, done it. By that. So but we're still optimistic that can happen. We're just waiting for things to just normalize a little bit more, you know, because people are always going to eat food, you know, and people actually there's a trend of people eating out more than before. And with the idea that people are looking for a good, solid meal that has wholesome food, I mean, we cook stuff from scratch. I mean, you don't you won't find cans of of of the stuff we use. You know what I mean? We used to cook up 99% of stuff. We cook right from scratch, you know. And so as the trend goes for healthier food, for quality, home cooked food with great taste, we think we are in a perfect position to expand that business and really serve communities all over the country.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:36:16] Especially people who don't eat hamburgers and fries on their way to Florida.
Joe Spencer [00:36:18] Yeah, well, we're thinking not just all the way to Florida. Everybody east and west.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:36:26] Now when I used to go visit my sister in law in South Carolina, it's like a 14 hour drive and I hate fast food. My wife and I would get a six pack of Bucharest and put it in the car.
Joe Spencer [00:36:40] And that's what I'm talking about. Because we. Billy Wall-Winkel [00:36:41] Couldn't. Yeah, because I couldn't do it.
Joe Spencer [00:36:44] And surprisingly, a lot of people just I don't eat fast food either, you know, I have not for years, you know. And, you know, there's a lot of people concerned about the quality of fast food and just how it feels makes the body feel, you know, so. Yeah. So that, that, that we're in the right trend for it.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:37:03] So what are your thoughts on the state of food in the city today? So you mentioned that when you started, you had like, you know, Joe Muer across the street. You had a bunch of different styles of food. What do you think of the food scene today?
Joe Spencer [00:37:14] It's very vibrant. It's a lot of new places that are opening up, particularly in the downtown and midtown area. A lot of restaurants with, with good, solid concepts and trying different things. And I think that's good. I think that's good to see because, you know, that's one of the things that that is unfortunate about Detroit. There are not a lot of restaurant, variety of restaurants in the city. You know, all the fast food restaurants. We don't need those. I mean, not a lot of people need fast food. They have to have it. But we need a lot more restaurants where you can get a good breakfast, you can get a good dinner, you get a good lunch at affordable prices. And I think there's a lot more room for that, that that level of food, you're not more places that could serve a good breakfast, you know, a lot more places that could have a decent, much good sandwich shop that are building the sandwiches from scratch, not flipping burgers, you know what I mean? Good soups for lunch, you know what I mean? And dinner, you know, everybody doesn't want to spend $50 a plate for a dinner, you know, so there's a lot of room for that market. But I still like what's going on in the marketplace. It's, it's a lot of new restaurants. So I think are doing well. There's been a few that come and gone. You know, that's how the business goes. But I think it's I think it's improved.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:38:42] Just a couple quick questions and then we're all wrapped up. When you hear the word hustle or you think of the word hustle, what comes to mind?
Joe Spencer [00:38:51] Well, it talked about an entrepreneurial spirit. I think somebody who. Is about. Let me take opportunity and make something of it independent, you know, so whether it's I'm going to start selling something, some product on the side, you know, out of the back of my car, or I'm going to start putting on shows or concerts or are going to see how I can operate in an inventive market. If I can invent something that people that but there is an entrepreneurial spirit. I thought as well, I think about someone with that spirit.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:39:30] And then when you think of the word hustler, what comes to mind? Joe Spencer [00:39:34] Someone who is active in an entrepreneurship. Billy Wall-Winkel [00:39:38] And then do you have a side hustle right now?
Joe Spencer [00:39:43] I do not have a side hustle. I am now the president of the WGPR historical society. I worked when I bought the restaurant off work for WG, PR and I continue to work for WG PR until it was sold to CBS. And then I worked for CBS as their director of programing for seven years, and I didn't I didn't stop working in the broadcast industry until 2001. 21 took a buyout from CBS, and that's when I began to be involved in my restaurants in the day to day operations. Okay. So so what happened is after I got
involved in the restaurant, so forth, and WGPR had been sold and went away. I still maintain some of the friendships that I had and we decided that the history of WGPR needed to continue because. That is in a historical place. It was the first black owned and operated television station in the entire nation. It was the first and we were part of it. We helped put it on the air and make it happen, you know. And it operated for 20 years and did some innovative things. And we thought that was a story to tell. And so we started the pursuit of. Of doing something to keep that spirit alive. And we actually we had really a really good relationship. And still I have a good relationship with the Detroit Historical Museum because one of our people who was significant in the Operation Development Restaurant, Miss Karen Hudson Samuels, was also a member of the Detroit Historic Detroit Historical Society's Black Historic.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:41:41] Yeah, Historic Sites Committee.
Joe Spencer [00:41:43] Yes, thank you. Thank you for that. Yes. And she was a member of that. And through that relationship, we began working with some of the people here at Historical Museum, and we had an exhibit we put together our first exhibit I think it was in 2016. We put our first exhibit together from that exhibit. The success of that, we convinced the owners of WGPR F.M. Radio because on radio station and TV station, convinced them to allow us to use the studios where the TV production used to be to build the museum. And we built a museum there. So I was elected president because I was the leader at the station when it was on the air. And so that's my side hustle, if you will, you know. But believe me right now, it's not that that has taken up a lot of my time. We are engaged, engaged and putting together a fundraiser coming up and this month in September. And so that's my side hustle, if you will. But it's a it's a nonprofit organization. I don't earn money from it. But it's is just a great joy to continue the legacy of WGPR.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:42:57] Thank you so much for speaking with us.
Joe Spencer [00:42:58] Well, it's my pleasure.
Billy Wall-Winkel [00:43:00] It was a great thank you.
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Citation
“Seajoseffer Spencer, September 1st, 2022,” Detroit Historical Society Oral History Archive, accessed January 12, 2025, http://oralhistory.detroithistorical.org/items/show/825.