Kamau Jawara, May 31st, 2024

Title

Kamau Jawara, May 31st, 2024

Description

In this interview, Kamau Jawara talks about his experience with climate change and Covid-19.

Publisher

Detroit Historical Society

Date

May 31st 2024

Rights

Detroit Historical Society

Language

en-US

Narrator/Interviewee's Name

Kamau Jawara

Brief Biography

Kamau Jawara is a long time Detroit resident, with a background in organizing and campaigning on the behalf of Detroiters wishing to see a better future

Interviewer's Name

Kevin Hawthorne

Interview Length

39:38

Transcription


Kevin Hawthorne: All right. My name is Kevin Hawthorne. I'm here with the Detroit Historical Society today, and I am with If you could introduce yourself for the record.

Kamau Jawara: Oh I'm Kamau Jawara Southeast Michigan lead organizer for We The People of Michigan.

KH: That and, could you spell your name for the record?

KJ: Yeah. K a m a u J a w a r a

KH: All right. Thank you. And, do you live in the city of Detroit?

KJ: Yeah, I'm a lifer. I'm a native son of Detroit.

KH: In what neighborhood?

KJ: I grew up, I always tell people where I grew up and then where I live. I grew up in Morningside, right off of East Warren. I now live in EV Village with four streets over right off of east Warren.

KH: Oh, excellent and, how long have you worked with, we the people?

KJ: Yeah so in November, I'll be at four years.

KH: Excellent and so, you've been in the city your whole life. You said your current neighborhood. How long have you lived in?

KJ: So I've lived in EEV since August. I bought in August, last fall. Morningside I lived for basically most of my life and up to that point.

KH: Excellent andd how did you get involved with with the people?

KJ: Yeah. So 2020 I came on as our at the time our McComb organizer and then eventually Detroit organizer. Really like coming from doing a lot of, organizing at the university level at Wayne State, sitting around like Black male retention and wraparound services for black students and I was really just looking for, similar work, like, how do we do a lot of what we did at the university level on a broader scale, more in the political arena and we the people was kind of raised on my radar by, some folks in the movement and yeah, I've been here ever since then. I don't have, like a dramatic story of how I started. But hey, that that's really it. Yeah.

KH: Well. And you did you attend Wayne State? What was your, focus in?

KJ: Yes, I was an urban studies student, at Wayne State, from 2016 to 2020.

KH: Right And, so just as a resident of Detroit in the past ten years, how have you felt that, climate change has affected your neighborhood?

KJ: Oh, so many ways. I think in particular, I mean, there's a few, like one I think we're in a period where, harm reduction and remediation are, like, much, far more urgent than they were before. Just at a material level, like flood, of course, or something that, like, plagued the East Side very heavily whenever we have, like, torrential and heavy rain. But also I think the just strain on our energy grid, as well as like piping, those are all challenges that folk are facing in the neighborhood that I grew up in. It's like, how do they actually contend with the changes in our climate and the need for home repairs, weatherization, electrification, when those things are so expensive? So that at a material level, I think those are some of the changes more broadly, if we're going to look at like ten years as a time window I mean, we have to talk about emergency management and inevitably, the increasing privatization of water, the increasing, like, power of monopolies. When we think about investor owned utilities that, handle our energy grid and so some of those trends have actually impacted, like, local decision making. They've impacted the civic arena in terms of like, you know, it's pretty interesting that we have a, you know, pretty record breakingingly bad, energy utility in here in Southeast Michigan that participates a lot in our civic community, donating money as a charitable organization and what that actually does to people's perceptions of them as a political actor and so I think it's both the material of their worst climate conditions and a greater need for remediation, and protection from those. But there's also, in the more kind of like legislative and, economic side of things, there's a shift, there's actually more power that, some of the organizations that handle our basic needs have over how our lives are and that's much different than pre-emergency management in Detroit.

KH: We've been seeing a lot of the adverse effects. What have been some of the worst adverse effects you've seen just in your own community, or even like if you have any personal anecdotes of like, adverse effects of the climate change?

KJ: Yeah. I mean, I think if we go back to June 26th, 2021. I memorized this date because I was in this flood, I took a brief stint where I was living in an apartment, following, after college. and I was actually, this is the one time I didn't live where I live. I lived in West Village and I remember, like, you know, my second day, I was there, my apartment being flooded out, up to my knees and and going, like, traveling through, you know, Jefferson through Grosse Pointe to try and get to my parents house over in Morningside and all of Grosse Pointe was flooded, you know, in Grosse Pointe tends to like disassociate from everything happening because they're so isolated. But they were impacted by a flood just as much as folk on the east side were. And then thinking about using East English village, cornerstone village, Morningside. All those neighborhoods are hit really hard by that flood. And it it really has been the second a really big flood. I think there was one in the early 2010s, I think 2013, 2014, that was pretty similar. But, it was the most that folk had been hit and they had to wrestle with like, oh, this is what we're expecting in terms of rainfall, every summer. So I think there's that and the just proliferation of power outages. There were something that we had, pretty sporadically before, but now, like, we can anticipate a power outage every August. We anticipate a power outage every January, February during that stretch, and folk are seeing 5 to 7 power outages of multiple days per year, in a way that they hadn't been experiencing before. So I think there's both like, like flood, but damage we're also seeing like an increase in noise pollution, thinking about particularly where I live, it's not too far from the place where they built the Jeep Grand Cherokee, the Crystler, Stellantis plant that was built in the past ten years. Or the expansion and just thinking about noise pollution, thinking about the lack of trees and greenery and neighborhoods and how that's actually impacting, like one, streetscapes don't look as interesting as they used to, but also, people are like, experiencing way hotter summer days. Less pollinators, of course directly, I'm thinking about a lot of folk in my neighborhood that like, like myself, like we garden and we grow food during the summer, during the warm seasons and just thinking about all the additional work we have to do to get our soil to a healthy state but also think about how do we stimulate, you know, native flowers and pollinators and love bugs and I think that we need to actually grow food so I can go through some of the challenges that I see most immediately. Outside of just like, repairs, home damage, etc., etc—

KH: Yeah, absolutely. And you were talking about like how you and many in your neighborhood enjoy, trying to be green and, you know, grow food. Have you seen any people leading projects to have more sustainability?

KJ: So many. Yes. I love this because I'm going to one tomorrow. Yeah there's actually been, I think, Detroit, like, we've seen a great boom in live all the time. There's been a great boom in farming space. So thinking even about, you know, some of my elders that feed on freedom growers over on Manistique. On the east side Keep Growing Detroit as being just like, a city wide stakeholder that folk are able to take advantage of and I think I'm seeing, like, even me being like, I'm a block captain, in our neighborhood association and even thinking about how within that we have days now where we're like, hey, we're going to grow some trees on you know on Outer Drive, and we're going to work together we're going to do that. And so seeing people really come together and create, programs, but also events centered around, okay, how do we actually start solving some of these problems or thinking about, hey, like, and even just the at the micro level, thinking about a lot of my, neighbors on my street, like they were raising concerns about a home that had tall grass. And for me, I don't mind tall grass. And I'm like, oh no, no Mow May, do your thing. But, even thinking about, you know, how do we work together on that, whether it's, you know, I'm going to cut it this week or do we have to all chip in? So we're seeing some very small local strategies on some of these issues. And then more broadly, like other stakeholders, like I always will bring up Keep Growing Detroit. I think Friends of The Root is another really great stakeholder that is like helping people build rain gardens. And they're like in their front yard or in their backyard, and they do all of the technical assistance around, like where do you put it? How do you design it? How do you get volunteers? How about building it? So I think there there is. You know, when there's many challenges, like an influx of a lot of folks that are really thinking about how do we of course, bring some of these, like, climate issues down to our people and create projects where, like, they're super clear on how that actually change their lives. And I probably missed a couple people, but there's there's yeah, there's a few organizations that have done really cool stuff.

KH: So have you seen just in general in the past few years, you see more people getting interested in the community aspect of trying to work together with climate change.

KJ: Yes and no?

KH: Yes and no. Yeah.

KJ: Yeah I Would say like there is—. The shift that we've had, just politically, I think, is that folk are more dependent on, you know, decision maker saying like, hey, we're going invest this many dollars and we want community feedback like that. That's how people have adjusted. Just becomes like how our executive committee, is currently moving. So I think there's been an increase in programs. The challenge that I think we always have, I think that, you know, it's the same people or similar people, even thinking about, you know, my neighborhood association, it's largely elders that have been like, in the neighborhood for a while or like if they were in another name, but they were involved there. And so now they're coming here and they want to be more involved. There is a shortage of young people. There's a shortage of Gen Z, to millennial age folk that are like, aware and kind of, you know, some of these programs and some of these spaces. And so I think, while there's there are great things that are happening, that challenge, I think, that communities are facing is engaging all types of people, all types of folks, but also thinking about like, how do we retain these programs and have succession plans for some of the things that we're building some, but that's probably why I would say yes and no is that I think that, there's not enough engagement, but there is engagement.

KH: That's very interesting. What do you think you a lot of these communities could be doing to kind of attract more like, you know, Gen Z, millennial type, people to be more engaged, or do you think, they could do? I know it's a hard question

KJ: No, I mean, this is like a question that we we organizers we like, dream about. I mean, I mean, there's a few things I think, like most immediately, the biggest challenge that, like, our region is facing is like quality of life. I mean, this is kind of like broadly a lot of what the government's been working on, like, how do we keep people here and attract people. So thinking about quality of life, I break it down to job mobility, and mobility, not just in the like horizontal sense, but also in the vertical sense. So thinking about, you know, young people, when we're like, there aren't enough employment opportunities and like variance of employment opportunities. I think that when we're in a state such as Michigan, where we have the Great Lakes, we have, beautiful trees and all these things we actually have so many resources that we can be leading the nation on in terms of climate, climate research and, tech and all these different things that I think we want to attract. And I think we're wanting to attract infrastructure that already exist elsewhere, or we're like, we're deciding we are going to be the automotive city in that state, and that's all we're going to do. So I think one, there's like the, opportunity for like careers within some of these programs for young people, whether it's internships, whether it's volunteer opportunities, thinking about great attraction talent, which is an employment program for young people here in city. And thinking about how can we put young people on professional paves as young as 14, 15 thinking about what you're interested in, politics, you're interested in the environment, or they might not even know that they could be interested in. And so given them opportunities to do so. So I think there's that there's like one the quality of life issue of employment. And then I think in addition to that, there's another piece which is like around like where are folks going to be where young people are going to live and stay. I think we're we've been wrestling with, the, lack of rent control, and ability to enforce it at the city level. But I think when we think about just like the cost of living in neighborhoods, you know, homeowners are very cagey when you say, we're going to go to an apartment in your neighborhood, one because of just, like, very rightful reasons of, like people have been pushed out people have been displaced when those projects have happened. But there actually is a need for both single family housing, but also mixed family housing, and other opportunities to be thinking about how can we embed young people in neighborhoods. I think a lot of young folks are, I say this myself, previously being a renter, when you're established in a renters neighborhood some of the like, social politics are much different. And you go down to city council and you raise a concern. You're actually also not taken seriously. If someone going as not a homeowner you think of you as short term you're, on the way to the next thing. And so really thinking about how we can embed young people into neighborhoods long term and be receptive to their climate needs, the biggest climate needs that young people always talk about is transit and the lack of investment. And so I think that's more broad but I think like if we're going to, talk about ways to engage young people in some of these spaces and programs happening, it's creating like both employment opportunities, but also just like basic living opportunities, so that they can build some stake in neighborhoods. Because a lot of people, you know, they grew up here, they, love the city and they would be willing to stay if there's an opportunity to.

KH: Do you say, like a lot of the, you know, kind of economic issues people don't realize are often intertwined with things like climate change?

KJ: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 100% I mean, we're thinking and we're seeing this with housing where like, you know, there's Detroit and the challenge that we've had as a state and not just Detroit is that like, we haven't built a lot of housing. I think we haven't built new homes, like physical homes until very recently. And so thinking about how, you know, when that's happening, but you also have an overwhelming amount of vacant homes. Have there been, like, disinvested in or not renovated? And what that does, the communities I think we're trying to and they're kind of what we're seeing is like the city solar program, where they're trying to put solar farms in neighborhoods that are like, derelict, like they don't have a lot of homes. They have like big lots and I understand the perspective of wanting to do that and the challenge of how does that make someone feel about their neighborhood and does it facilitate development and investment in that neighborhood. And so really, I think those are things that we're kind of wrestling with regard for how climate is showing up in the quality of life issues is thinking about where we're familiar, what is the impact of people living where they do, but also to employment and other than how know, impact people.

KH: how do you feel like the local government has addressed a lot of these issues with climate change.

KJ: There's been a mix of good and bad. I mean, I'm very, like off the record, right? And I'm very critical of our executive team, but I do also like, acknowledge programs that have been successful. I think that there's been at least like I always chunk things out if decades plus of. I think we're particularly now we're 11 years after emergency management with you know half the public back for so I think one like there has been an attention to bike infrastructure. There's been an intense like attention to how do we create corridors in particular neighborhoods for thinking about in the first one to start with taking Livernois and saying we're going to extend we're going to put bump outs and extend the sidewalk, increase walkability and work with their, economic like neighborhood association to actually do it in a way that is receptive to what the needs are in their neighborhood and what they want. I think that's like the shining example of it. The challenge is that not every neighborhood has that same, social infrastructure of like, look, we have a neighborhood association that is ready to go. And when they have conversation and they know what the, soul and spirit of their neighborhood is to shape it. But I think that in general, some of those programs have been good. They've been good ideas to like, think about, okay, how do we put more trees in neighborhoods and engage folks in asking, like, do you want this tree or do you want that tree? Or do you want perennials or do you want this? They seem very small, but they're actually really big. Community conversations that like, start creating, a desire for people to be at the table for those. I think those are some of the good things. I think the challenge in this is what happens just from a policy perspective, is that most things fall under implementation. And so a program can be very, very good and helpful, like thinking about federal dollars that are now coming down to the IRA for, you know, weatherization projects or home repairs. Those programs are good programs. The challenge is that if the folks that need them most aren't aware of them, or there's like credit limitation or income limitation. And now to those programs, a lot of people actually don't get to take advantage of it. And so really thinking about, how can the city one do some of the small micro projects that they've been doing at the neighborhood level, but also with the macro programs and like, look, we're going to make this investment and housing. We're going gonna make this investment, in flood remediation, really being thoughtful about where to do those programs and how to, bring community in as, like actual shapers and coconspirators on those as opposed to, I think, what you know, what we saw after that kind of flood situation is, like many folks were told, hey, this is just how things are going to be, but we're going to try pile it into one neighborhood that is like less impacted than you, but there's more income there. So I think, yeah, it really falls in implementation. And just like how you can be a part of that.

KH: And, we've talked about a lot of green infrastructures. Have you ever looked into getting like, wind turbines or, solar panels?

KJ: Yeah. So this like, I mean, I'm grabbing my Laptop charger so I don't die while talking to you. Yeah. So in regards to wind, me personally, yes, this is like my dream. Like I want to be fully electrified solar, heating pumps and so forth, so on. The biggest challenge I think, and I mean, and I will say this from my own experience, but also from, what we've talked to with constituents is cost. As well as, some of the like technical assistance through like what's available. So, I mean, most people aren't going to wake up tomorrow and say, hey, I want to get solar panels. And then they're going to like, call an electrician and they're going to come and are going to do it. They're going to pay for it out of pocket. Like it's just not how these things can work. For the most part, folks that have been able to do it have taken advantage of federal programs that have like, trickled down to the county and city level. And so the challenge there, I think is like the connectivity around like, how do we assist residents through that process? Like I even say, this is a new homeowner who like 6 to 7 at the end is like, oh, it's actually super difficult to have a conversation with, you know HVAC to talk about like, oh, I actually need a new furnace and now we're going to sit down. I want to talk about it and like, what do I need and like, oh, I have electric need to have support for one. So I think like those, assistance through those conversations and like finding the best deals is a big part of it. But in addition to that, connecting it to the folk that can do labor, I mean, very recently had a conversation with folk from IBEW, and, they were sharing like, there's, you know, there's 2000 plus electricians in the city of Detroit that are like, equipped to do a lot of these, like, clean energy installs. The challenge is that, like one, they don't have the opportunities because there's not being there's not very broad investments in clean energy being made. And there's also put political, policy limitations to clean energy in many capacities. But also families don't have the means to afford them to say, hey, I can give you work this month or today. And so, I think, yeah, it's a dream is the thing that I would love. And I think many families are like, they would love it. Or they're curious about how it can, you know, how they can leverage it. The challenges, some of that connectivity. I went back to, I think what I was saying before around implementation.

KH: So with, We the people, you guys obviously have a wide net of things that you are doing, like in terms of all throughout the political spectrum, but in general with climate change, what, what are you, trying to do with climate change? With, with the people specifically? And obviously that's—. You do many things.

KJ: Yeah. So I lead, our climatework down in Michigan, and we have another team and in the UP, it also works on energy. Some of our other campaigns are more like other things like housing, immigration, education. The big piece that is like a focus for us. There's really I mean, there's multiple phases. I think the phase that we're in right now, is how do we move impacted residents that do not see themselves as climate specialists or experts because they don't have a degree in electrical engineering or environmental studies or whatever it may be? How do we actually shift the narrative to where they actually are versus people that are paying for it and experiencing harm? Climate issues? And so that means like thinking about, you know, why is it that every year our utility is like asking for higher rates? And then we're not seeing that proportionate investment made it to our grid. And so how do we start moving residents to a degree where they're like, asking those questions and engaging like, hey, how can we improve our grid? How can we work with all the different stakeholders that like think about, updating the grid or making investments in solar and so forth, so on. So I think phase one, where we are right now, I think where we'd like to be super ambitious from a policy perspective, if it's not anchored to residents wielding that power and shaping it, I think we kind of reinvent some of the same problems that we're experiencing. So phase one, where we are is like doing some of that work. And then beyond that, there's phase two. It's like, how do we bridge the interest of, residents across communities to, actually revitalize our energy grid here? So thinking about, you know, putting labor in the same room with, residents and really being thoughtful about, like, what—. It's not just about, you know, we say we'll adjust transitions to what we want to move towards. But it's like it's not just about residents having a more convenient, cheaper energy grid at the cost of labor. It's actually thinking about how do workers as well have better conditions, where conditions, better opportunities as well as residents, and really facilitating that conversation. And then beyond that, there is phase three, which is now that we have that context, what are we building, actively building and shaping. But that would I that's the vision down here in South East, Michigan is pretty similar. In the Upper Peninsula, they just have different considerations thinking about the native and indigenous and federally recognized populations, as well as like communities that are far more spaced out because its so rural. So thinking about the different needs. But ultimately, I think the mission is pretty similar.

KH: And, just, a couple closing questions. You know, with, unfortunately, climate change being a, pretty divisive political issue. What would you say to someone who says that they don't believe that climate change is real or that it's an issue?

KJ: It's so funny to, not to, like, sidetrack it, but I know it comes up every, like, presidential debate around whether climate change is real or not. And I've actually never heard anyone conservative or like on the left side of the aisle in person, in real life, say that it's not real. I always puzzled by that, that federal conversation, but it might be more of a thing elsewhere. But I would say, like the first thing I, I mean, I do is approach that with curiosity around. The thing that flares up anyone, regardless of their political belief, is paying more for things. So thinking about, you know, the cost of gas, thinking about, car expenses, thinking about interest rates for cars and, the rate of rain and what it does in terms of like, hey, you know, 8 to $10,000 of flood damage that you have to resolve. Those are the questions that are much more helpful. I often don't want to answer, like, I don't want to answer questions to which I think I know the answer. I want to engage like, okay, like why do you like how are you effected. What do you think? What are your thoughts? To really invite people into, looking at our climate as more than just. Because I think if we look at climate change, it's just like, oh, do I feel it? Does it feel warmer? I mean, it's a it's a it's true. It is warmer like each year, but it's a superficial gauge for most people. I think if we're looking at it as, and what ways are, you know, being extracted it from and what ways are the political opportunities being like, shrunk in terms of like what we can do with our climate? I think those are the places where, across the aisle, people will engage conversations because they want to know, you know, why am I paying more for water, for energy, for air, for automobile, all these different things, really being invitational and I think is the way I approach that.

KH: In terms of climate change, was there anything else you wanted to bring up that we feel we might not have covered?

KJ: Yeah, I guess I just think, in addition to it, our understanding of it, and our voice, which is on the behalf of rural areas and the UP isl ike and some of our definitions, climate change and also environmental justice. Like, we can be very urban minded. I say this is a person very urban, like I always grew up in a city. But thinking about some of our rural populations, thinking about, native populations. They're some of the biggest harm in terms of climate and climate, like, challenges, whether it's like gas or oil, coal, fracking, all these different things, they're actually heavily impacting those populations. I mean, think about pipelines. Because I think really, you know, it's been a challenge because we, we live in a nation that has a very complicated history around, how the land has been acquired. It means that we often, like, ended, like, make folk invisible. And we talked about this a lot with a lot of our, Gogebic and Anishinaabe people up in the U.P. is like, hey, they feel invisible like they're not even being entertained in that— like, why aren't they being talked about in presidential election in the same way that everyone else is like a political football, like we need to get the black vote. We need to get the so and so vote. And so thinking about, when we talk about climate change, like, how can we invite them more into those conversations? Because some of our language that we use around, like when we say like energy, democracy, democracy is not a thing that native populations have felt. They tend to say energy sovereignty. And so thinking about how do we shape some of our thinking around it to be as open and invitational as possible? Because there's a lot of folk, and rural neighborhoods that just like, aren't seen in the solutions. That's probably the only other thing I would add and maybe perhaps we didn't talk about this, because my context is a little bit more urban.

KH: It absolutely is an important context, I believe. Do you think just in general we should be doing more to diversify the conversation?

KJ: Yeah, I think so.

KH: Okay. All right. And then, just to end, I'm also going to just do a couple questions also about, Covid 19. So first, just, you know, it is 2024. And obviously I don't want to say the pandemic is over because we are, you know, very much still living in a pandemic world. But it's not like 2020 anymore where, you know, we were like masking up. I remember like, putting hand sanitizer on, like, every five minutes if I even went outside. We live in a world where with access to vaccine, so it's a lot easier. So I don't want to act like we're in a post-Covid world. But in terms of like the biggest impact, how, like, like how were you impacted by Covid?

KJ: Oh, boy. I mean.

KH: I know it's a big question.

KJ: Yeah. we're still being impacted, in fact.

KH: Did you get Covid, at or have you been able to.

KJ: At this point, I, I think I've done, I've gotten Covid maybe 3 or 4 times. The latter two or less, like aawful because the vaccination and, boosters have been really helpful. I think with it. Like, I mean, me personally being impacted by Covid. I was just thinking about some of my, you know, I moved back home. I lived with my parents for the time being. And just thinking about this is really where I started to think about, home repairs and the cost of it before. Like, looking at, like, some of the research like you've had done, some other partner renovations have done. Which is recognizing how, you know, during that period, everyone was at home with this is why everyon was emaking banana bread and like, trying to work on their house. It means that like, they were starting to evaluate how, like, functional their home was or, what particular needs were or like renovations needed kind of I think a lot of folks were not actually able to afford that at the time. Still can. So for me personally, I think it was a big push for me like to move and to eventually buy with, like how do I create, a setting that like I have some control over. So I think that was one way personally. But I think beyond that, our orientation to each other has grown even more isolated than it has been to kind of like suburbs, shopping malls and MTV. And, it's increasingly gotten far more isolated. So we're still like, trying to and I think from an organizing perspective, there's a lot of needs that people have that we need to accommodate. And not just organizing, but also to like, whether it's community feedback, whether community engagement, community center, that have changed because of Covid, because people are thinking about, hey, I'm actually kind of like, we are like, the people are like out in a bubble and they're like, scared to engage with each other. But beyond that, just thinking about some of that, you know, childcare, it's far more expensive now, for folk. And so that's also a limitation. It's far more expensive. And so there's a lot of shift post-Covid, that I think people are wrestling with. And I think also just grief. 2020 was a pretty difficult year specifically for Detroit. That we, I mean, I can still recall it having a, memoriam at Bell isle of lives that have been lost and thinking about how many families are like. The old a bit like they're wrestling with some of that trauma, as they also like want to reengage with the outside world and get involved and understand what's happening. So those are some of the personal like impact I feel like impact me, but also some of the work I do that our context is far different, or there's a lot more air work that we need to do. There's a lot more, coaching and encouragement that we have to do with, community members to like, help them feel comfortable in action. Because of what was a really, really difficult few years. So. Yeah.

KH: how do you feel about like, the cities reaction to Covid? Do you think we were able to do, you know, with what we could. Do you think they did a decent job trying?

KJ: I think we actually did. I'm actually I mean, I there were challenges because like, when it was on getting people on board with like, stay in your house, please don't go. But I actually do think that we did a good job of like without over politicizing it with like, what our limitations were like. We had more broadly in the federal kind of things. Not the most attention to the pandemic that we should have had. But like at the state and city level, I think that like we had, public officials that were like really thoughtful about, like, how do we, educate people about it and continuously like, how do we shift bussing to accommodate people that need to ride busses and I think that the dispersal of the vaccine, while it was always going to be a challenge, like getting people to know that the vaccine is available, and that's one place where we did have some challenges from a public health perspective. Being able to have some of those opportunities, like utilizing, some the convention center that Cobo and, so forth, and one, to get folk vaccinated was really, really thoughtful. I think the place where we've probably gotten a little bit comfortable is, I think, the same way that everyone else has where we like, we're now in this context where we're like, oh, the pandemic no longer exists. And it's like, well, people are still getting Covid. And it is still a risk to like folk who, like, have preexisting conditions. And so, I think that we were pretty thoughtful about, like, how to respond to it to accommodate different lifestyles. The challenge has been, going up some of the, for lack of a better word, because I don't think it over, like, the post work, to really reintegrate people back into the world and in a way that like. Still feels healthy and like it feels like all the like the hand sanitizers and the mask and all the things that suddenly disappeared. And they were a thing that was like, socially acceptable for people to just like, oh, you can walk in somewhere and grab on a mask. And there's some places that are still doing it, and others that are, are left so doing that. So. Yeah.

KH: Just for the final closing tquestion is, are you worried about seeing a Covid? Another thing like Covid within your lifetime?

KJ: I have a lot of life left in 26, so, I don't know if it's some reason I've lived through, like, all of the crises. I think I think so, probably because I think, like. Our response to Covid has been pretty arrogant and like, hey, we've been in. It's over. I mean, I think about this a lot of someone who, sometimes that can travel for work. I was really amazed at how much we were able to do with airports during Covid that, like, helped keep people safe and healthy. And now all of it is like, gone And I'm thinking that the person who had a long flight to LA pretty recently, where I got sick off the flight and was like sick as a dog for days. So yeah, I think that there's a concern, because of the ways that we've. You know, disinvested from like, hey, we're going to have mask, we're going to sanitizer, going to like, educate people about public health and what it is. And I, and I think that we have a surplus of resources that we have and are investing in around like. You know, it's cool to expansion for Henry Ford and DMC. And of course, you're right next to Wayne state, which has a wonderful med school. And so really thinking about, like, as you know, public health is one of the hottest major right now for young people and has been for the past few years. How do we kind of integrate both people into, some of our work spaces, thinking about what does it look like to have a public health professional, working for Quicken Loans or working for your firmor thinking about, hey, what you're organizing is super important, but you also have to pay attention to these things and these health outcomes. Often that is a thing that we have to externally do. We have to build those connections like, hey, we're going to talk to you public health professionals. We want to know how out of the impact of what go on. So I do have the concerns that because I think that our response hasn't been to build more capacity, in conversations in education around public health. But I'm hoping that soon, but yeah, you never know. We've had a, wow, a couple few years, so. Yeah.

KH: Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

KJ: Yeah, thanks so much. I'm I happy to answer anything over if there's other questions or whatever, but yeah, I guess I'm just curious, like, about the kind of study you are doing and how some of this information might be helpful for you.

Files

Logo for climate Change OH.jfif

Citation

“Kamau Jawara, May 31st, 2024,” Detroit Historical Society Oral History Archive, accessed February 8, 2025, https://oralhistory.detroithistorical.org/items/show/1000.

Output Formats