Jorel Wilson, May 18th, 2024
Title
Jorel Wilson, May 18th, 2024
Description
In this interview, Jorel Wilson discusses the flooding in the Jefferson Chalmers neighborhood, the Manistique Community Treehouse Center’s solar energy program, and urban gardening for community food security.
In partnership with the Manistique Community Treehouse Center
In partnership with the Manistique Community Treehouse Center
Publisher
Detroit Historical Society
Rights
Detroit Historical Society
Language
en-US
Narrator/Interviewee's Name
Jorel Wilson
Brief Biography
Jorel Wilson was born in Detroit, and moved back to the city from Pontiac, Michigan in 2018. He lives in the Jefferson Chalmers neighborhood, where he has an urban garden.
Interviewer's Name
Doris Lanzkron-Tamarazo
Date
5/18/2024
Interview Length
17:48
Transcription
Doris Lanzkron-Tamarazo: I'm Doris Lanzkron-Tamarazo, it's May 18th, 2024, and I'm here with.
Jorel Wilson: Jorel Wilson. It's J o r e l W i l s o n.
DLT: Thank you. And do you live in the city of Detroit?
JW: Yes.
DLT: What neighborhood do you live in?
JW: Jefferson Chalmers.
DLT: How long have you lived there?
JW: It's been about six years now? Yeah, six years since we moved back down to Jefferson Chalmers.
DLT: And where did you live before then?
JW: Before then, I lived in Pontiac. I lived out in Pontiac for about ten years, but I'm native to Detroit. I was born here, lived here, moved out for a little bit, and then wanted to move back to, you know, where I'm from.
DLT: And were there any particular reasons you decided to move back?
JW: Well, you know, when you're from Detroit, it always feels good to come home. And, being out at Pontiac, even though it's not far, we found ourselves just spending tons of money, tons of time just coming back to where we're from. So we just decided it was time to move back. We liked the improvements that were happening around the city and we really wanted to be a part of that.
DLT: And in your time living in Detroit, have you personally experienced any effects of climate change?
JW: Climate change? I would assume that the once in a lifetime rain that we had would be an effect of that. So I would say, yeah, we were we were devastated by climate change.
DLT: Can you tell me a little bit more about that flood?
JW: Yeah. So with the flood, like I said before, we were, we moved back to Detroit from Pontiac. So we were in the middle of investing into our home, renovating it. So during that time, we were working on the first and second floor. So all of our belongings, we had to move to the basement to get our floors refinished. And, just luck happens. The once in a lifetime rain happens, and all of our stuff gets washed away, like all of it. So that was pretty devastating. I'm talking third-grade report cards, from clothes to third-grade report cards to wedding pictures to just you name it, we lost it.
DLT: And did you notice your neighbors having the same experiences?
JW: Yeah, definitely. All of our neighbors had the same experience, if they had anything in their basement. Some of our neighbors, they've been in the neighborhood longer. So they've experienced this before and they knew better to not have so much stuff in their basement. Unfortunately, we didn't have that, so. But yeah, across the neighborhood, it was devastating. I've never seen fish swim in the street. So that was a new experience that, not too many people can say. So, yeah, it was pretty, pretty rough.
DLT: And are you involved with the Treehouse Center?
JW: The Treehouse Center with Tammy? Yeah, we do volunteering there. She does awesome work. She has the Treehouse Center and she has, the solar thing that she does. We’ve actually benefited from that. She was able to get our home with solar energy. And that's, it's been a benefit.
DLT: And how did you get involved in the Treehouse Center to start with?
JW: Just from being in the neighborhood, walking and riding bikes, we saw something interesting going on. We stopped, asked what was happening there. Tammy explained her vision, and from there we just help out where we can. We volunteer.
DLT: And what was the interesting thing you noticed, if you remember?
JW: So the interesting thing was the, I think it was about the, creating a habitat for native birds to be in the area and then pollinators, like saving bees and butterflies, things that pollinate, to improve everyone's life. Because without bees, we don't have food, right? And us, we're actually, we have our urban garden. So those are things that are important to us. So I would say that's what piqued our interest with it.
DLT: And can you tell me about your urban garden?
JW: Urban garden. So, yeah, we purchased, a lot from the city of Detroit last year. This year’s our first year actually getting into it. So we're excited about that. We've grown some seedlings and now it's time to transplant them. We’ve already transplanted our crop of corn, but we have tomatoes, we have onions. We have tons of stuff. And the cool thing about it is it's not for us. We're going to donate it to some nonprofits in the area that have distribution networks to get people that, get people with food that need food. So, healthy food, healthy produce is always good, especially when you can help out people. So that's our urban garden.
DLT: And what nonprofits are you planning on donating to?
JW: So we donate to, we have our nonprofit first. So it's a new nonprofit, but we also work with, we do volunteer at Gleaners and— Man, now I feel bad because you put me on the spot and my direct work, we always do a, we always donate to this nonprofit. And I feel bad because now I don't, I can't think of the name. But, it's a nonprofit that deals with school-age children with food insecurity. Because especially in the summertime, you know, there's a lot of kids that their only meal comes from what they eat at school. So in the summertime, this program, it's a stopgap for that. I apologize, I don't have the name, but, one local nonprofit, also in our neighborhood, Jefferson Chalmers, is Hope House. Oh, yeah! And also Abloom, Detroit Abloom. So those non-profits, those two non-profits, we donate time and money to in our local neighborhood.
DLT: And why did you decide to get into urban gardening?
JW: Food insecurity. We go grocery shopping and we see the prices, like, it is crazy. And, food insecurity has always been an issue in this city, with prices going up, with more investment coming in, pushing out smaller businesses to bring in bigger chains, sometimes bigger chains have bigger costs associated with it. So that's what got us into urban gardening, just being able to help out. First we thought about it like, hey, it'd be cool. Nice little hobby. We started gardening during the pandemic in our backyard, found out it was a nice hobby, and we wanted to take it further. It's just me and my wife, so we can't eat a whole garden's worth of food. So urban gardening, donating to local nonprofits that help, just sounded like a good thing to do. And so far it is.
DLT: And are there any particular challenges of urban gardening that you've noticed?
JW: Keeping people off my lawn! [Laughter] No. No challenges so far, other than curious people just coming to find out what you got going on. Sometimes someone may bring a lawnmower across your lawn by mistake because we have a vacant lot behind us that we haven't been able to acquire. So other than that, no, no challenges. I would actually, encourage other people to join in where they can.
DLT: And have you been involved at all in the Tree House's gardening and greening efforts?
JW: The Treehouse gardening and greening efforts? I'm not sure if I am or not. Okay, can you, what is—?
DLT: I know that they have their own urban garden.
JW: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the Treehouse, actually, I'm thinking about the Treehouse initiative right next to it. She started a bird garden. What's the name of it? So that's what I was thinking about when you said the Treehouse initiative. So, Tammy has a garden.. Yeah, we spent some time over there, putting together some things for the garden, I think it was tables and stuff like that. If that's what you, that's what you're asking.
DLT: And what other volunteer work do you do for the Treehouse?
JW: That's about it so far. Looking to do more? But that's as far as we've gotten so far.
DLT: And if you've noticed any of this, what do you think the community's response has been to the Treehouse’s efforts?
JW: So the community's response, it's been positive. There's no other response you can have in this situation like, it's so much amazing work. It's an amazing space to just be there and be with your neighbors. I know there's an annual dinner every year that we go to, and it's tons of fun. At minimum, you get to meet your neighbors and build a community. You know, on the high end, you're helping out tons of people, and the environment.
DLT: And you mentioned the big flood that happened. Have there been other floods since you, since that one?
JW: I've heard there's been other floods. After that flood, I was able to get a stop flow valve. I think that's the name of it, but I got that installed, so we weren't affected by the other one. But some of my neighbors have said that there has been other floods that happened. I believe the very following year there was, from what I understand, there was a pretty big flood in the neighborhood again.
DLT: And have those continued to have bad effects on your neighbors?
JW: Yeah, definitely. I mean, just being honest, our neighborhood is mostly comprised of elderly people. And when you're higher in age, your potential to earn income or extra income is a little bit more limited. So when you lose stuff, whether it's covered by insurance or not, when you lose stuff, like, you're not, in their situations, you're not able to go and earn or make more money to replace this. You actually have to take away from your, your living budget to replace things that shouldn't be replaced. So, yeah, it's impacting a lot of our neighbors, financially and emotionally.
DLT: And what do you think their greatest needs are? To mitigate the effects of the flooding?
JW: I would say, the same thing that I got put in: the valve that stops sewage from coming back up. And not only that, but sump pumps. Our land seems like it retains a lot of water, a high water table, and sump pumps can really help a lot of us with basement issues, with water that comes up through the storm drains, that isn't sewage, it's just water. The water table is so high that it puts pressure on the homes’ foundations, creates pockets where it can, where water can come through. And it just comes into a lot of our basements. So sump pumps in the area is, it's a must. And the valve protector, or valve protection backflow protection is, is definitely needed.
DLT: And what are your thoughts on the city's response to the flooding?
JW: It's been no response. The city won't take, wouldn’t take ownership of the issue. Their response was this was an act of God, and if their drains were on, it wouldn't have made any difference. The thing is, like, they're paid to have those drains on and let us find out if it made a difference. We can't just take your word for it when you're kind of, like, on the hook for responsibility. Sounds like you're just dodging responsibility. And it’s really just a slap in the face to all the residents like myself and, like, lifelong residents that that, are fully invested in this city. For the city not to have their back is shameful.
DLT: And are you aware of the Treehouse’s partnership with the National Weather Service?
JW: No. I'm not aware of that. What's the partnership?
DLT: There's, like, a flooding app that helps people track when these floods are occurring so people can prepare for those.
JW: Oh. That's nice. No, I need to get that! [Laughter]
DLT: If you know a little bit more about it, can you tell me more about the Treehouse's solar efforts that you mentioned earlier?
JW: Yeah. So the solar efforts, I think we were part of, was it 24, homes? I think it was a pilot program where we were able to get solar at a hugely discounted price. I don't want to disclose the price, but it was supremely discounted. And the installation went smooth. The city came out, did the inspections. Everything got hooked up. And when the sun's out, we save money. Like, it's good for the, it's good for the environment, obviously. Our usage is lower. But it's also good for my pocket, so it's good for both greens.
DLT: Have you noticed people being more hesitant to try solar?
JW: No, I actually get a lot of neighbors asking how we got solar. So if Tammy can get that program a little bigger, I know we got a lot of people that are waiting to jump on board.
DLT: And they're just waiting because of cost or installation troubles?
JW: Well, yeah, without Tammy's help, we actually— So let me back up. We had a solar company come out and give us an estimate for solar. We have some trees that are— Our neighborhood is older, so we have a lot of big trees. They said that the system would get about 50% usage with the tree that I have. And they quoted me about a $30,000 install, and they said it would take about 40 years for me to recoup cost. So that was a big barrier. I mean, 40 years to recoup costs? You know, that's kind, that's a difficult pill to swallow.
But, Tammy— We saw a sign, we actually we saw signs in the neighborhood. And, we called Tammy. And she explained the process. To be honest, it sounded crazy. It didn't sound real, but we see our neighbors all engaged in it, and we actually see the solar panels on homes. So we took a leap of faith and kind of find out, Tammy is everything she says she is. Tammy got us the solar panels, and the install was smooth. Yeah, I'm very grateful.
DLT: And besides an expansion of the solar program. Is there any other big projects that you’d ideally like to see the Treehouse do to help the neighborhood?
JW: Well, she’s so, the Treehouse initiative is so involved in the neighborhood, I don't think there's a part of the neighborhood they're not involved in. Thinking out further, some initiatives that I'd like to see them in that they're not? Huh. I really can't think of any. The Treehouse initiative is focused on environmental issues. But those environmental issues, they affect us in so many different lanes of life that it's touching us all over the place. So I feel good with that. I feel like their impact is so broad that trying to find something that they're not doing is actually harder than, you know, just being happy with what's being, what's being done for us.
DLT: And, the city, if they could do one, like, big piece of infrastructure that would help with the issue, what would you want that to be?
JW: The city. What I would like to see from the city? Well, for me personally, one of the biggest things I would like to see from the city is take ownership over the big flood that happened before. A lot of us are still recovering from that. A lot of us didn't have insurance. I did have flood insurance, but even with flood insurance, they only cover, like, the mechanicals. So like I said, when I lost all my stuff, I lost everything. And what we got was a loan to replace it. So just seeing the city just step up to the plate, and, if not covering what we lost, cover a sump pump. Take out the red, take off the red tape. Let us contract our own people to get some pumps installed and reimburse us. That's what I would like to see, at minimum.
DLT: And was there anything else you wanted to discuss that wasn't brought up by any of my questions?
JW: No, I think that was pretty good.
DLT: All right. That was all the questions I had for you today. Thank you so much for your time.
JW: All right. Thank you.
Jorel Wilson: Jorel Wilson. It's J o r e l W i l s o n.
DLT: Thank you. And do you live in the city of Detroit?
JW: Yes.
DLT: What neighborhood do you live in?
JW: Jefferson Chalmers.
DLT: How long have you lived there?
JW: It's been about six years now? Yeah, six years since we moved back down to Jefferson Chalmers.
DLT: And where did you live before then?
JW: Before then, I lived in Pontiac. I lived out in Pontiac for about ten years, but I'm native to Detroit. I was born here, lived here, moved out for a little bit, and then wanted to move back to, you know, where I'm from.
DLT: And were there any particular reasons you decided to move back?
JW: Well, you know, when you're from Detroit, it always feels good to come home. And, being out at Pontiac, even though it's not far, we found ourselves just spending tons of money, tons of time just coming back to where we're from. So we just decided it was time to move back. We liked the improvements that were happening around the city and we really wanted to be a part of that.
DLT: And in your time living in Detroit, have you personally experienced any effects of climate change?
JW: Climate change? I would assume that the once in a lifetime rain that we had would be an effect of that. So I would say, yeah, we were we were devastated by climate change.
DLT: Can you tell me a little bit more about that flood?
JW: Yeah. So with the flood, like I said before, we were, we moved back to Detroit from Pontiac. So we were in the middle of investing into our home, renovating it. So during that time, we were working on the first and second floor. So all of our belongings, we had to move to the basement to get our floors refinished. And, just luck happens. The once in a lifetime rain happens, and all of our stuff gets washed away, like all of it. So that was pretty devastating. I'm talking third-grade report cards, from clothes to third-grade report cards to wedding pictures to just you name it, we lost it.
DLT: And did you notice your neighbors having the same experiences?
JW: Yeah, definitely. All of our neighbors had the same experience, if they had anything in their basement. Some of our neighbors, they've been in the neighborhood longer. So they've experienced this before and they knew better to not have so much stuff in their basement. Unfortunately, we didn't have that, so. But yeah, across the neighborhood, it was devastating. I've never seen fish swim in the street. So that was a new experience that, not too many people can say. So, yeah, it was pretty, pretty rough.
DLT: And are you involved with the Treehouse Center?
JW: The Treehouse Center with Tammy? Yeah, we do volunteering there. She does awesome work. She has the Treehouse Center and she has, the solar thing that she does. We’ve actually benefited from that. She was able to get our home with solar energy. And that's, it's been a benefit.
DLT: And how did you get involved in the Treehouse Center to start with?
JW: Just from being in the neighborhood, walking and riding bikes, we saw something interesting going on. We stopped, asked what was happening there. Tammy explained her vision, and from there we just help out where we can. We volunteer.
DLT: And what was the interesting thing you noticed, if you remember?
JW: So the interesting thing was the, I think it was about the, creating a habitat for native birds to be in the area and then pollinators, like saving bees and butterflies, things that pollinate, to improve everyone's life. Because without bees, we don't have food, right? And us, we're actually, we have our urban garden. So those are things that are important to us. So I would say that's what piqued our interest with it.
DLT: And can you tell me about your urban garden?
JW: Urban garden. So, yeah, we purchased, a lot from the city of Detroit last year. This year’s our first year actually getting into it. So we're excited about that. We've grown some seedlings and now it's time to transplant them. We’ve already transplanted our crop of corn, but we have tomatoes, we have onions. We have tons of stuff. And the cool thing about it is it's not for us. We're going to donate it to some nonprofits in the area that have distribution networks to get people that, get people with food that need food. So, healthy food, healthy produce is always good, especially when you can help out people. So that's our urban garden.
DLT: And what nonprofits are you planning on donating to?
JW: So we donate to, we have our nonprofit first. So it's a new nonprofit, but we also work with, we do volunteer at Gleaners and— Man, now I feel bad because you put me on the spot and my direct work, we always do a, we always donate to this nonprofit. And I feel bad because now I don't, I can't think of the name. But, it's a nonprofit that deals with school-age children with food insecurity. Because especially in the summertime, you know, there's a lot of kids that their only meal comes from what they eat at school. So in the summertime, this program, it's a stopgap for that. I apologize, I don't have the name, but, one local nonprofit, also in our neighborhood, Jefferson Chalmers, is Hope House. Oh, yeah! And also Abloom, Detroit Abloom. So those non-profits, those two non-profits, we donate time and money to in our local neighborhood.
DLT: And why did you decide to get into urban gardening?
JW: Food insecurity. We go grocery shopping and we see the prices, like, it is crazy. And, food insecurity has always been an issue in this city, with prices going up, with more investment coming in, pushing out smaller businesses to bring in bigger chains, sometimes bigger chains have bigger costs associated with it. So that's what got us into urban gardening, just being able to help out. First we thought about it like, hey, it'd be cool. Nice little hobby. We started gardening during the pandemic in our backyard, found out it was a nice hobby, and we wanted to take it further. It's just me and my wife, so we can't eat a whole garden's worth of food. So urban gardening, donating to local nonprofits that help, just sounded like a good thing to do. And so far it is.
DLT: And are there any particular challenges of urban gardening that you've noticed?
JW: Keeping people off my lawn! [Laughter] No. No challenges so far, other than curious people just coming to find out what you got going on. Sometimes someone may bring a lawnmower across your lawn by mistake because we have a vacant lot behind us that we haven't been able to acquire. So other than that, no, no challenges. I would actually, encourage other people to join in where they can.
DLT: And have you been involved at all in the Tree House's gardening and greening efforts?
JW: The Treehouse gardening and greening efforts? I'm not sure if I am or not. Okay, can you, what is—?
DLT: I know that they have their own urban garden.
JW: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the Treehouse, actually, I'm thinking about the Treehouse initiative right next to it. She started a bird garden. What's the name of it? So that's what I was thinking about when you said the Treehouse initiative. So, Tammy has a garden.. Yeah, we spent some time over there, putting together some things for the garden, I think it was tables and stuff like that. If that's what you, that's what you're asking.
DLT: And what other volunteer work do you do for the Treehouse?
JW: That's about it so far. Looking to do more? But that's as far as we've gotten so far.
DLT: And if you've noticed any of this, what do you think the community's response has been to the Treehouse’s efforts?
JW: So the community's response, it's been positive. There's no other response you can have in this situation like, it's so much amazing work. It's an amazing space to just be there and be with your neighbors. I know there's an annual dinner every year that we go to, and it's tons of fun. At minimum, you get to meet your neighbors and build a community. You know, on the high end, you're helping out tons of people, and the environment.
DLT: And you mentioned the big flood that happened. Have there been other floods since you, since that one?
JW: I've heard there's been other floods. After that flood, I was able to get a stop flow valve. I think that's the name of it, but I got that installed, so we weren't affected by the other one. But some of my neighbors have said that there has been other floods that happened. I believe the very following year there was, from what I understand, there was a pretty big flood in the neighborhood again.
DLT: And have those continued to have bad effects on your neighbors?
JW: Yeah, definitely. I mean, just being honest, our neighborhood is mostly comprised of elderly people. And when you're higher in age, your potential to earn income or extra income is a little bit more limited. So when you lose stuff, whether it's covered by insurance or not, when you lose stuff, like, you're not, in their situations, you're not able to go and earn or make more money to replace this. You actually have to take away from your, your living budget to replace things that shouldn't be replaced. So, yeah, it's impacting a lot of our neighbors, financially and emotionally.
DLT: And what do you think their greatest needs are? To mitigate the effects of the flooding?
JW: I would say, the same thing that I got put in: the valve that stops sewage from coming back up. And not only that, but sump pumps. Our land seems like it retains a lot of water, a high water table, and sump pumps can really help a lot of us with basement issues, with water that comes up through the storm drains, that isn't sewage, it's just water. The water table is so high that it puts pressure on the homes’ foundations, creates pockets where it can, where water can come through. And it just comes into a lot of our basements. So sump pumps in the area is, it's a must. And the valve protector, or valve protection backflow protection is, is definitely needed.
DLT: And what are your thoughts on the city's response to the flooding?
JW: It's been no response. The city won't take, wouldn’t take ownership of the issue. Their response was this was an act of God, and if their drains were on, it wouldn't have made any difference. The thing is, like, they're paid to have those drains on and let us find out if it made a difference. We can't just take your word for it when you're kind of, like, on the hook for responsibility. Sounds like you're just dodging responsibility. And it’s really just a slap in the face to all the residents like myself and, like, lifelong residents that that, are fully invested in this city. For the city not to have their back is shameful.
DLT: And are you aware of the Treehouse’s partnership with the National Weather Service?
JW: No. I'm not aware of that. What's the partnership?
DLT: There's, like, a flooding app that helps people track when these floods are occurring so people can prepare for those.
JW: Oh. That's nice. No, I need to get that! [Laughter]
DLT: If you know a little bit more about it, can you tell me more about the Treehouse's solar efforts that you mentioned earlier?
JW: Yeah. So the solar efforts, I think we were part of, was it 24, homes? I think it was a pilot program where we were able to get solar at a hugely discounted price. I don't want to disclose the price, but it was supremely discounted. And the installation went smooth. The city came out, did the inspections. Everything got hooked up. And when the sun's out, we save money. Like, it's good for the, it's good for the environment, obviously. Our usage is lower. But it's also good for my pocket, so it's good for both greens.
DLT: Have you noticed people being more hesitant to try solar?
JW: No, I actually get a lot of neighbors asking how we got solar. So if Tammy can get that program a little bigger, I know we got a lot of people that are waiting to jump on board.
DLT: And they're just waiting because of cost or installation troubles?
JW: Well, yeah, without Tammy's help, we actually— So let me back up. We had a solar company come out and give us an estimate for solar. We have some trees that are— Our neighborhood is older, so we have a lot of big trees. They said that the system would get about 50% usage with the tree that I have. And they quoted me about a $30,000 install, and they said it would take about 40 years for me to recoup cost. So that was a big barrier. I mean, 40 years to recoup costs? You know, that's kind, that's a difficult pill to swallow.
But, Tammy— We saw a sign, we actually we saw signs in the neighborhood. And, we called Tammy. And she explained the process. To be honest, it sounded crazy. It didn't sound real, but we see our neighbors all engaged in it, and we actually see the solar panels on homes. So we took a leap of faith and kind of find out, Tammy is everything she says she is. Tammy got us the solar panels, and the install was smooth. Yeah, I'm very grateful.
DLT: And besides an expansion of the solar program. Is there any other big projects that you’d ideally like to see the Treehouse do to help the neighborhood?
JW: Well, she’s so, the Treehouse initiative is so involved in the neighborhood, I don't think there's a part of the neighborhood they're not involved in. Thinking out further, some initiatives that I'd like to see them in that they're not? Huh. I really can't think of any. The Treehouse initiative is focused on environmental issues. But those environmental issues, they affect us in so many different lanes of life that it's touching us all over the place. So I feel good with that. I feel like their impact is so broad that trying to find something that they're not doing is actually harder than, you know, just being happy with what's being, what's being done for us.
DLT: And, the city, if they could do one, like, big piece of infrastructure that would help with the issue, what would you want that to be?
JW: The city. What I would like to see from the city? Well, for me personally, one of the biggest things I would like to see from the city is take ownership over the big flood that happened before. A lot of us are still recovering from that. A lot of us didn't have insurance. I did have flood insurance, but even with flood insurance, they only cover, like, the mechanicals. So like I said, when I lost all my stuff, I lost everything. And what we got was a loan to replace it. So just seeing the city just step up to the plate, and, if not covering what we lost, cover a sump pump. Take out the red, take off the red tape. Let us contract our own people to get some pumps installed and reimburse us. That's what I would like to see, at minimum.
DLT: And was there anything else you wanted to discuss that wasn't brought up by any of my questions?
JW: No, I think that was pretty good.
DLT: All right. That was all the questions I had for you today. Thank you so much for your time.
JW: All right. Thank you.
Collection
Citation
“Jorel Wilson, May 18th, 2024,” Detroit Historical Society Oral History Archive, accessed February 8, 2025, https://oralhistory.detroithistorical.org/items/show/1015.