Matthew Steinberger, August 14th, 2024
Title
Matthew Steinberger, August 14th, 2024
Description
In this interview, Matthew Steinberger shares what it was like working as a doctor during Covid-19.
Publisher
Detroit Historical Society
Date
8/14/24
Rights
Detroit Historical Society
Language
en-US
Narrator/Interviewee's Name
Matthew Steinberger
Brief Biography
Matthew Steinberger is a doctor based out of Ann Arbor, with a history of studying in Chicago and other parts of Metro Detroit.
Interviewer's Name
Kevin Hawthorne
Interview Length
Track 1, 14:14
Track 2, 1:46
Track 2, 1:46
Transcription
Begin Track 1
Kevin Hawthorne: Hello, this is Kevin Hawthorne with the Detroit Historical Museum. And I'm here today with.
Matthew Steinberger: Matt Steinberger.
KH: All right. Thank you so much for joining us today, Matt. Just to start, in, what area do you live in currently?
MS: I currently live in Ann Arbor.
KH: And what is your occupation?
MS: I'm a physician
KH: And what is your education for the physician? Where did you attend?
MS: I went to Michigan State for my undergraduate and my medical school. And I did my residency training in Chicago.
KH: And when did you come back to the state of Michigan and around what year?
MS: 2020. 2020, .
KH: So how is that coming back to Covid after moving from Chicago? What was that experience like?
MS: I was living on the west side of the state at that point. There had been kind of the initial Covid wave in Chicago. We were very busy at the hospital I worked at. I went to a smaller area in West Michigan. So the initial wave had a lot of sick patients, but it hadn't been as severe. I'm talking to my colleagues there at the time, in the summer of 2020, actually, with not. Does not stand out in my memory as being particularly. Obviously things have gone back to normal, but. Things had some relative normality, especially in area when I was living in. There wasn't a ton of community college prep. Most businesses were were open to at least like outdoor dining and and masking indoors and things like that. And there were. There's a little bit of a sense of normality, I would say.
KH: And do you think being in the medical field, did you have a different view of Covid than most people you think? Because I remember in the usual way, there are some people who think like, it's just going to be like something like the Ebola scare from a past couple of years or like I remember the swine flu of it was just going to be like two weeks and it'd be fine. Or did you have a different perspective on that as being in the medical field?
MS: I so it was hard to know. So I had heard about it probably around the same time most people had heard about Covid. It was at that point It was probably late fall or early winter of 2019. There are reports from China of this illness and things were kind of vague. I don't know. I don't really have a ton of specific memories of the very first time I heard about Covid. Then I remember hearing about Spread to Italy, and then I remember hearing about the first kind of reports in the United States, which were isolated on the West Coast. And then the kind of first vivid memory of hearing about how bad Covid was was when you're a resident and people tend to have these networks of people that I went to medical school that are training at different facilities and hearing specifically from people in the Detroit area and people in New York. That ICU was more filling up and the severity of the illness. So prior to that, I guess I should say before that. I have kind of a peripheral connection as a family member. There is some family connection to Italy. So we had heard reports in the second hand about the severity of illness and the shutdowns there. And so I was kind of aware of the degree of severity. I think the disconnect between my perception of it and kind of the patients I was taking care of that probably didn't begin more until late 2020 during that kind of winter spike of Covid. I would think that's probably where the first disconnect came in. So people really. And hope things would return to normal at that point. And they just had, obviously.
KH: And just in general, what was it like seeing that big spike in winter?
MS: It was really impressive. The severity of illness of the patients, the number of patients, the stress on the system, the stress on myself and my colleagues, it's really hard to describe in a lot of ways. It's not something that I anticipated experiencing in my career. And I have a bias I was a hospital based doctor, so primary care physicians may have had a more varied view where they saw some of their patients get sick, but most got better, which is obviously the case. But the number of patients who I would never have interacted with who were suddenly very ill in the hospital was was impressive. The volume was really kind of scary.
KH: Had you ever really experienced anything like that before in your medical field?
MS: No. No one had. I mean, even talking to older, some people had been practicing longer. There was the bad you mentioned the swine flu, the H5n1. In certain areas of the country had. Not even approached. But there are a lot. It was the closest thing people around my age who are practicing medicine have experienced. Older doctors talk about No one had really seen anything like that. Yeah.
KH: And you had never anticipated seeing anything close to this?
MS: Well, I guess that's not to— I never— you think about it, I guess. Like you're aware of pandemics and you're aware of things like, you know, 1918, and you learn about these things both through life and in medical school. And so I guess you were kind of peripherally aware that, like, something like this could happen, but nothing really prepared you for it. Now, level of population wide illness. So I guess that's what I would say. And I know knowing again, this was a once in a century of that right there and been really like this since the 1918 flu pandemic. And so obviously, there have been other severe kind of talked about a little bit H5n1 and things like that. But there was no one around who had experienced anything quite like that.
KH: And working with Covid, was there anything that you saw that particularly took you aback that you hadn't expected to see or like just about anything that stood out to you in that time?
MS: I mean, again, it was just the severity of illness and the degree of respiratory failure. So, again, oftentimes people have a lot of medical morbidities. But then in healthy people, every once in a while you see these severe cases. And I think that kind of took me back, really. And I mean I was still relatively new in my career and severe influenza, but it was more of a rarity. But it obviously happened. I mean, every year we know people pass away from influenza and severe disease and complications related to influenza. But it was just the number of people and how sick they were. I think the amount of support they required. From my oxygen standpoint, this is really was. It was there wasn't like anything I had seen. Again, pretty new in my career, but not something that I had ever experienced previously.
KH: Was there anyone in your direct periphery, whether it be a family member or a patient you were looking after, who had a particularly severe case or passed away?
MS: yeah. A lot of patients passed away.
KH: How was that hard to deal with?
MS: Yeah. I mean, it's a strange thing, the process again, in the in the moment there was a little bit of a survival. Trying to make sure you're taking care of every other patient and trying to help your colleagues take care of people as well as you could. But but, yeah, people are very sick. And so. You know, the processing aspect of it is it's been a longer process I guess I would say in the moment it was more about I got to take care of everyone. So that's what we tried to do.
KH: Would you say you're still processing it to this day?
MS: I don't know. Because in my day to day, I don't I don't think about it or I try I mean. It's obviously still a part of my life. It's another pair of patients with Covid. Thinking about those really like challenging times during the first wave during March of 2020 and then that second wave in the winter of 2020. It's a lot.
KH: What is you? Have you seen be the main difference of Covid cases now versus earlier in the pandemic?
MS: It's pretty rare to see someone severely ill, though. I mean, you know. I've seen severe cases in the last year. But, you know, it's it's not a it's nowhere near. I would see that many patients in a week that were that ill. Now that's a year to get to that number if that.
KH: What do you think are some misconceptions about Covid that still persist? Maybe.
MS: I don't know. I don't know how to best answer that.
KH: That's okay.
MS: I don't want to—I don't have a good answer to that question. I don't. Yeah—
KH: No, that's absolutely.
MS: I don't talk to people on up. Talked to people. I don't survey people on Covid enough to know what people's perception of Covid is at this point versus when it all started. And there's so much there's so much information about Covid. Even from a medical standpoint, that's confusing. Like it's hard to know what the misconception is — I don't want to answer that.
KH: That is totally fair. Thank you. So obviously, being a doctor and being involved very heavily in these fears, did you contract Covid during the past four years?
MS: I actually just had Covid.
KH: So you mean for years?
MS: And then I had it two years ago. There's nothing that you don't have to include in the interview, but.
KH: You know, it could include it.
MS: Now, that was relatively mild for me. I'm a young, healthy person. This time around, the first time I was, I didn't feel well, most probably about a week.
KH: So you say, how was was the first time vs the second time.
MS: It was worse. I didn't feel very good the first time. I couldn't really— that the protocols have changed, but I couldn't have worked the first time. This time I had to be out of work. But the first time I would not have physically were capable of doing my job. That's how I get. But that's how I quantify how sick I am. Could I work if I needed to? The first time I could. Not that.
KH: Absolutely. And thinking about Covid 19, as you said, this was kind of like a once in a century type thing, however. Are you worried—
MS: I guess I should be. I should rephrase that. That was that's how we experience that. But it could happen more often.
KH: Yeah. As someone who's worked in the physician field now, are you worried about, like, maybe something like this happening again within our lifetimes?
MS: I— It is something that could happen again in our lifetime. I don't have a good way to quantify and I don't really want to speculate on something like that.
KH: Absolutely. And then just overall, how did you feel the response from both on a, you know, local, state level and nationwide level, how do you feel the response was?
MS: It's. It's hard to say. No, no.
(interviewee asked to go off record)
End of Track 1
Begin Track 2
MS: So can you are able to pause it again for a second and.
KH: So are there any final things that we haven't discussed on the topic that you would like to have the floor with right now? Is that you there?
(technical issues with our call arise)
MS: Yeah, I'm here. Can you not see me?
KH: You know, I think I have something that my internet is unstable.
MS: Okay. Anything else I want to share? You know, I don't really think so. Yeah, it was a tough it was a really challenging experience. Was a hard way to start my career. There was a hard— I don't want that — I don't want to say that. It was a— it was a hard thing to experience. I can't articulate anything else.
KH: No, that's absolutely fair. It was a hard time for everyone, especially I can't imagine being a doctor during this.
MS: But it was— You. No, I don't know if I have anything really to laugh to share about the subject. Well.
KH: All right. Thank you. You are not useless. You were incredibly useful. And I really appreciate you for your time today.
MS: All right.
Kevin Hawthorne: Hello, this is Kevin Hawthorne with the Detroit Historical Museum. And I'm here today with.
Matthew Steinberger: Matt Steinberger.
KH: All right. Thank you so much for joining us today, Matt. Just to start, in, what area do you live in currently?
MS: I currently live in Ann Arbor.
KH: And what is your occupation?
MS: I'm a physician
KH: And what is your education for the physician? Where did you attend?
MS: I went to Michigan State for my undergraduate and my medical school. And I did my residency training in Chicago.
KH: And when did you come back to the state of Michigan and around what year?
MS: 2020. 2020, .
KH: So how is that coming back to Covid after moving from Chicago? What was that experience like?
MS: I was living on the west side of the state at that point. There had been kind of the initial Covid wave in Chicago. We were very busy at the hospital I worked at. I went to a smaller area in West Michigan. So the initial wave had a lot of sick patients, but it hadn't been as severe. I'm talking to my colleagues there at the time, in the summer of 2020, actually, with not. Does not stand out in my memory as being particularly. Obviously things have gone back to normal, but. Things had some relative normality, especially in area when I was living in. There wasn't a ton of community college prep. Most businesses were were open to at least like outdoor dining and and masking indoors and things like that. And there were. There's a little bit of a sense of normality, I would say.
KH: And do you think being in the medical field, did you have a different view of Covid than most people you think? Because I remember in the usual way, there are some people who think like, it's just going to be like something like the Ebola scare from a past couple of years or like I remember the swine flu of it was just going to be like two weeks and it'd be fine. Or did you have a different perspective on that as being in the medical field?
MS: I so it was hard to know. So I had heard about it probably around the same time most people had heard about Covid. It was at that point It was probably late fall or early winter of 2019. There are reports from China of this illness and things were kind of vague. I don't know. I don't really have a ton of specific memories of the very first time I heard about Covid. Then I remember hearing about Spread to Italy, and then I remember hearing about the first kind of reports in the United States, which were isolated on the West Coast. And then the kind of first vivid memory of hearing about how bad Covid was was when you're a resident and people tend to have these networks of people that I went to medical school that are training at different facilities and hearing specifically from people in the Detroit area and people in New York. That ICU was more filling up and the severity of the illness. So prior to that, I guess I should say before that. I have kind of a peripheral connection as a family member. There is some family connection to Italy. So we had heard reports in the second hand about the severity of illness and the shutdowns there. And so I was kind of aware of the degree of severity. I think the disconnect between my perception of it and kind of the patients I was taking care of that probably didn't begin more until late 2020 during that kind of winter spike of Covid. I would think that's probably where the first disconnect came in. So people really. And hope things would return to normal at that point. And they just had, obviously.
KH: And just in general, what was it like seeing that big spike in winter?
MS: It was really impressive. The severity of illness of the patients, the number of patients, the stress on the system, the stress on myself and my colleagues, it's really hard to describe in a lot of ways. It's not something that I anticipated experiencing in my career. And I have a bias I was a hospital based doctor, so primary care physicians may have had a more varied view where they saw some of their patients get sick, but most got better, which is obviously the case. But the number of patients who I would never have interacted with who were suddenly very ill in the hospital was was impressive. The volume was really kind of scary.
KH: Had you ever really experienced anything like that before in your medical field?
MS: No. No one had. I mean, even talking to older, some people had been practicing longer. There was the bad you mentioned the swine flu, the H5n1. In certain areas of the country had. Not even approached. But there are a lot. It was the closest thing people around my age who are practicing medicine have experienced. Older doctors talk about No one had really seen anything like that. Yeah.
KH: And you had never anticipated seeing anything close to this?
MS: Well, I guess that's not to— I never— you think about it, I guess. Like you're aware of pandemics and you're aware of things like, you know, 1918, and you learn about these things both through life and in medical school. And so I guess you were kind of peripherally aware that, like, something like this could happen, but nothing really prepared you for it. Now, level of population wide illness. So I guess that's what I would say. And I know knowing again, this was a once in a century of that right there and been really like this since the 1918 flu pandemic. And so obviously, there have been other severe kind of talked about a little bit H5n1 and things like that. But there was no one around who had experienced anything quite like that.
KH: And working with Covid, was there anything that you saw that particularly took you aback that you hadn't expected to see or like just about anything that stood out to you in that time?
MS: I mean, again, it was just the severity of illness and the degree of respiratory failure. So, again, oftentimes people have a lot of medical morbidities. But then in healthy people, every once in a while you see these severe cases. And I think that kind of took me back, really. And I mean I was still relatively new in my career and severe influenza, but it was more of a rarity. But it obviously happened. I mean, every year we know people pass away from influenza and severe disease and complications related to influenza. But it was just the number of people and how sick they were. I think the amount of support they required. From my oxygen standpoint, this is really was. It was there wasn't like anything I had seen. Again, pretty new in my career, but not something that I had ever experienced previously.
KH: Was there anyone in your direct periphery, whether it be a family member or a patient you were looking after, who had a particularly severe case or passed away?
MS: yeah. A lot of patients passed away.
KH: How was that hard to deal with?
MS: Yeah. I mean, it's a strange thing, the process again, in the in the moment there was a little bit of a survival. Trying to make sure you're taking care of every other patient and trying to help your colleagues take care of people as well as you could. But but, yeah, people are very sick. And so. You know, the processing aspect of it is it's been a longer process I guess I would say in the moment it was more about I got to take care of everyone. So that's what we tried to do.
KH: Would you say you're still processing it to this day?
MS: I don't know. Because in my day to day, I don't I don't think about it or I try I mean. It's obviously still a part of my life. It's another pair of patients with Covid. Thinking about those really like challenging times during the first wave during March of 2020 and then that second wave in the winter of 2020. It's a lot.
KH: What is you? Have you seen be the main difference of Covid cases now versus earlier in the pandemic?
MS: It's pretty rare to see someone severely ill, though. I mean, you know. I've seen severe cases in the last year. But, you know, it's it's not a it's nowhere near. I would see that many patients in a week that were that ill. Now that's a year to get to that number if that.
KH: What do you think are some misconceptions about Covid that still persist? Maybe.
MS: I don't know. I don't know how to best answer that.
KH: That's okay.
MS: I don't want to—I don't have a good answer to that question. I don't. Yeah—
KH: No, that's absolutely.
MS: I don't talk to people on up. Talked to people. I don't survey people on Covid enough to know what people's perception of Covid is at this point versus when it all started. And there's so much there's so much information about Covid. Even from a medical standpoint, that's confusing. Like it's hard to know what the misconception is — I don't want to answer that.
KH: That is totally fair. Thank you. So obviously, being a doctor and being involved very heavily in these fears, did you contract Covid during the past four years?
MS: I actually just had Covid.
KH: So you mean for years?
MS: And then I had it two years ago. There's nothing that you don't have to include in the interview, but.
KH: You know, it could include it.
MS: Now, that was relatively mild for me. I'm a young, healthy person. This time around, the first time I was, I didn't feel well, most probably about a week.
KH: So you say, how was was the first time vs the second time.
MS: It was worse. I didn't feel very good the first time. I couldn't really— that the protocols have changed, but I couldn't have worked the first time. This time I had to be out of work. But the first time I would not have physically were capable of doing my job. That's how I get. But that's how I quantify how sick I am. Could I work if I needed to? The first time I could. Not that.
KH: Absolutely. And thinking about Covid 19, as you said, this was kind of like a once in a century type thing, however. Are you worried—
MS: I guess I should be. I should rephrase that. That was that's how we experience that. But it could happen more often.
KH: Yeah. As someone who's worked in the physician field now, are you worried about, like, maybe something like this happening again within our lifetimes?
MS: I— It is something that could happen again in our lifetime. I don't have a good way to quantify and I don't really want to speculate on something like that.
KH: Absolutely. And then just overall, how did you feel the response from both on a, you know, local, state level and nationwide level, how do you feel the response was?
MS: It's. It's hard to say. No, no.
(interviewee asked to go off record)
End of Track 1
Begin Track 2
MS: So can you are able to pause it again for a second and.
KH: So are there any final things that we haven't discussed on the topic that you would like to have the floor with right now? Is that you there?
(technical issues with our call arise)
MS: Yeah, I'm here. Can you not see me?
KH: You know, I think I have something that my internet is unstable.
MS: Okay. Anything else I want to share? You know, I don't really think so. Yeah, it was a tough it was a really challenging experience. Was a hard way to start my career. There was a hard— I don't want that — I don't want to say that. It was a— it was a hard thing to experience. I can't articulate anything else.
KH: No, that's absolutely fair. It was a hard time for everyone, especially I can't imagine being a doctor during this.
MS: But it was— You. No, I don't know if I have anything really to laugh to share about the subject. Well.
KH: All right. Thank you. You are not useless. You were incredibly useful. And I really appreciate you for your time today.
MS: All right.
Files
Collection
Citation
“Matthew Steinberger, August 14th, 2024,” Detroit Historical Society Oral History Archive, accessed March 16, 2025, https://oralhistory.detroithistorical.org/items/show/1073.