Edna Baker and Pearl Bonham-Moss, June 18th, 2016
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BB: This is Bree Boettner with the Detroit Historical Society’s Detroit 1967 Oral History Project. I’m here today on June 18th with Pearl Bonham-Moss as well as Edna Baker, her mother. Thank you ladies for coming in with us today. Edna, if you could start with where and when you were born.
EB: I was born in Maryland, March 13th, 1928.
BB: What did your parents do?
EB: Housework.
BB: Both of them? Both your mother and your father did?
EB: My father worked, he stayed where he worked. He was like a butler, cook. He came home on Fridays, and every other weekend.
BB: Okay. When did your parents move you to Detroit?
EB: I can’t remember, when did I come to Detroit?
PB: I don’t know, I think it was the ‘50s or ‘60s you came to Detroit.
EB: I don’t really remember when I came to Detroit.
BB: You don’t remember when you came to Detroit? Okay. We’re going to pause with you and jump to Pearl. Miss Pearl, where and when were you born?
PB: I was born in Alabama, in May. Late May.
BB: What did your parents do?
PB: Well, it depends on which side. Two were teachers, one was a housewife, and my father worked outside of the house.
BB: Fantastic. When did you move to Detroit?
PB: In 1962.
BB: 1962, okay. Miss Edna, can you tell me a little bit about your family in the city of Detroit? What was it like for your family? Where did you live?
EB: I lived on—
PB: Well when I came here, you were on Monterey. When you first came, I don’t know where you lived.
EB: First we lived in a basement apartment, I remember that. It wasn’t too far from Woodward because I could walk to Woodward Avenue and catch the bus. It was about two blocks from Woodward, I guess. But it was just outside of Highland Park. What else you wanna know about that?
BB: How old were you?
EB: I don’t even remember how old I was, it was so long ago.
BB: May I ask how old you are now?
EB: Eighty-something.
BB: The lucky eighties, huh? For context, how was your living arrangements during the 1960s?
EB: Well first we had a basement apartment, then we progressed to an upstairs apartment. We went upstairs and had, I guess it was called a second floor. So that was a move upward.
BB: How was the city of Detroit at that time?
EB: It was fine for me.
BB: What did you do for fun?
EB: We’d go to the park, and we’d go to Belle Isle. I guess Belle Isle was a hangout.
BB: Did you have any siblings?
EB: A brother and a sister.
BB: Did they live here with you in Detroit?
EB: I don’t think so, because they both were older.
BB: Oh, okay, you were the youngest, huh?
EB: Yes.
BB: Okay. Well I’m going to jump to Miss Pearl. Miss Pearl, when you moved to Detroit, how did you perceive the city? How was the city of Detroit at that time? Because you said it was the ‘50s, right?
PB: No, it was ‘60s. It was nice when I moved to Detroit. We were living on Monterey at the time in Detroit, off of Linwood.
BB: Were you going to school?
PB: Yes. Central High. It was a walk, I used to walk. My girlfriend would come by every morning and pick me up and we would walk to school together.
BB: What were some of your fond memories of Detroit in the ‘60s?
PB: The fireworks, going different places.
EB: Fourth of July was a big occasion.
PB: Yes. Just visiting the different buildings and structures and things to see. Going to football games—I like football. Attended football games. I like all sports, basketball….
BB: So we’re going to jump ahead. How did you hear about the events of ’67? July in 1967? How did you hear about what was going on at 12th and Clairmount?
PB: I was here. I think I heard it on the radio, if I remember correctly. Maybe TV. Maybe television.
BB: What were your feelings when you heard about it?
PB: I was not happy.
BB: You weren’t happy? Why weren’t you happy?
PB: Because it wasn’t nice. I didn’t want the city to be torn apart and burned in that way.
BB: Did you understand what was going on?
PB: Yes. I did. Yeah. I understood the reason, but I don’t think it had to be violent, the reason for it. It didn’t have to be violent to accomplish what they were trying to accomplish.
BB: How do you classify the events? Do you consider it an uprising, a rebellion, a riot? What would be your classification of the events?
PB: I would say uprising, I suppose.
BB: You said it would be or wouldn’t be uprising?
PB: Would be.
BB: Miss Edna, how did you first hear about the uprising of ’67?
EB: I guess by word of mouth.
PB: Yeah, she was out of town.
BB: She was out of town. Where were you at the time?
EB: I have no idea.
PB: Philadelphia. Virginia, Philadelphia, she was on her way back from Virginia and Philadelphia.
EB: Oh, Philadelphia.
BB: Fantastic. When you came back, what were your feelings about the city?
EB: I guess I was a little upset to hear about it.
PB: Tell them what happened. You had to go to the police station.
EB: At that time, they had cut off some entrances to the city, so we were not aware of that. We came in the wrong entrance and we ended up in jail.
BB: You ended up in jail because you came in the wrong entrance?
EB: Yes, because the city was blockaded or whatever you call it. You had to have a permit to ride around the city. You were supposed to stay home. After a certain time, the lights went out, so if you had a light on in your house, you had to pull the shade so the light wouldn’t shine outside your house. Since we didn’t know that, that’s why we ended up in jail.
BB: How long were you held?
EB: Overnight, I guess.
PB: I don’t know if you stayed overnight. It was probably overnight by the time the processing got done.
BB: Oh, my goodness. Was it scary?
EB: A little scary.
BB: Just a little bit?
EB: The police escorted us to jail, because we weren’t supposed to be out there. There was a blackout in the city.
BB: The days following, what did you see?
EB: I don’t know.
BB: Did you work at the time? Did you work some place?
PB: She was teaching, but she was off for the summer. It was summertime, so she was on her summer break.
BB: Fantastic. After the altercation of being apprehended—my goodness, what an experience—were there any other events that followed that affected you from the ’67 riots? Did you have any other run-ins with police officers? Did you witness any other events? Any fires?
EB: No.
PB: No, because where we were, it didn’t come quite as far. On Livernois was where we were.
EB: It was funny, we were outside waiting for it come to up to our area.
PB: It didn’t come that far. I think it only came up to—what was it, the tenth precinct? On Elmhurst or someplace like that? No, I guess it came to Fenkell maybe. But it didn’t come to 7 Mile Road—
EB: It didn’t come here.
PB: —and Livernois, it didn’t come that far.
BB: So your neighborhood wasn’t really affected?
PB & EB: No.
BB: Afterwards, after the events, after everything settled down, what did you see in that area? I’d imagine you drove through or by that area. What did you witness after the fact?
EB: I don’t think our area was bothered.
PB: No, it wasn’t. I mean, you could see the evidence of what had happened after the fact. The burned out and torn down, and the tanks and all that stuff. The National Guard people were patrolling the city. My husband, he was a police officer at that time, so he was involved with all that.
BB: What precinct did your husband work out of?
PB: He was at 13th and Beaubien at the time.
BB: Did he see any action during the event?
PB: Yes, he did.
BB: Do you know of any of his accounts?
PB: No, I just know he was out there and involved in it.
BB: When did you marry your husband?
PB: In ’86.
BB: So quite a few years afterwards. So he was a young guy.
PB: Yes.
BB: That’s right, because you were in high school. After the events, everybody is talking about how it affected the city. Did you see any effects, long-term effects, that it had on the city of Detroit?
PB: Well, the city, it digressed, as far as the quality of what was going on. It wasn’t the same. The property values and all that stuff, decreased, and it didn’t get rebuilt right away. The houses slowly just deteriorated.
BB: Do you feel the same way, Edna?
EB: Yes. I’m going to sleep over here.
BB: Oh, no! I’m sorry, I’m putting you to sleep! Oh, my goodness! The rest of your family or your neighborhood, was anybody else affected that you know of from ’67? Any of your other family members, or your neighborhood, neighbors? No, you guys were pretty out there?
PB: No, not that I’m aware.
BB: You knew of it, but you weren’t involved?
PB: Yeah.
BB: Good to know. Well, as a project as we’re looking in the past in order to move forward. Do you have any messages for future generations about the event in particular and how you believe the city of Detroit can change for the better?
PB: I think if, you know, everybody would try to work together and help each other and stop tearing down everything and build—and the young people, they need to know the history of everything that happened in order for them to be able to know what happened and be able to do something positive about it—
EB: See that it doesn’t happen again.
PB: Yeah, and stop tearing down. Love each other and not be against each other.
BB: Definitely. And that’s what we’re trying to do! Fantastic. Was there anything else in particular you ladies wanted to discuss today in regards to ’67?
EB: No.
PB: No, I can’t think of anything. I’ll probably think of something later when I leave.
BB: That’s perfectly fine. If you do think of anything after you leave, we do accept written histories and we can just attach it to your oral history. I will give you a card.
[TIME STAMP END OF INTERVIEW 13:54]
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